I am looking at buying a new tri specific bike and I am weighing up the options.I currently race in olympic and 1/2 IM distance races but I am looking at making the leap to IM 2006/7.
I have narrowed my choice down to the p3 or the Aero Ti/ Tri Ti frame by Guru.
Can someone help me decide taking into account that I don’t want to have to buy another bike for IM.
What are you currently riding ? Do you ride steep or slack ? What type of bike split are you going for ? What wheel size are you riding ? What is your height, inseam, torso length, forearm and arm length ? If you post some of the above, we might be able to help you are bit more. Why Guru and Cervelo only as your choices ? Finally, which Ironman are you going to. Dave Scott did some of a the fastest Ironman times or a relatively crappy Centurion 
I am currently riding a compact frame with Clip on tri Bars.I rode a 2:31 at 1/2 IM UK last year but know that I could go a lot quicker on a better set up. I would preferably want 700c wheels.
I am not entirely sure on the exact measurements but I Know am 1.80m tall ,I have a 76.5 cm inseam.
An athlete of mine recently had the same options. He ended up choosing the Guru Tri-Ti, which was my advice to him as well. The Aero-Ti is just not worth it and the P3 is not adapted to a number of different courses like a light, durable frame like the Tri-Ti is.
About the choices - it is just what I have been looking at - I am open to suggestion.
To answer the IM question - I am looking at doing either IM Austria / Switzerland
I’m a bit confused about your comments. It seems there has been a lot of this type of cervelo debate on this forum lately. I don’t understand when you say
“the P3 is not adapted to a number of different courses like a light, durable frame like the Tri-Ti is.”
What courses is the P3 not good for? It’s a pretty light, very aero frame, and I’ve see pictures of pros riding them at all the IMNA events. The Guru has some pretty massive aero tubes, so I have a hard time beliving that the Guru is that much lighter and more suited for climbing than the P3.
Please note, I am not trying to start another cervelo debate, I’m simply confused. Maybe I’m missing something fundamental about bike handling.
-Colin
Even thought I’m a Cervelo junkie myself - I saw an Aero Ti up close last week at my LBS and it is really a beautiful bike…it’s a whole different price category though…you’d be able to get an entire P3C for just about the frame/fork of the Guru.
…or, you could get the SL or Team version of the P3 and a sweet set of wheels and still be well under the Guru…but it is a very, very nice looking bike. Have heard they have longer top tubes than advertised though…
Titanium will travel better, will it not? If that is a consideration…
Then again, if you have a really good bike carrier, it should protect it well.
Some bikes break down for packing better than others…again, if you’re travelling, consider the final size of the packed bike…because the smaller you can pack it, the cheaper (potentially) it could be to ship it. There are bikes that are MUCH smaller in the packed state than others due to the seat tube height (or, lack of seat tube).
CCF,
Don’t take this personally, but the truth of the matter is that if someone came up and reccomended the P3 to the original poster, you wouldn’t be asking that, now would you? Because of that reason alone, I won’t reply to your post objectively. Of course I’ll stick by what I wrote.
Also I mentioned by choice would be the Tri-Ti, not the Aero-Ti.
Interesting…
Do you know what bike I ride? You seem to be saying that I am hot and bothered about people slamming the P3, but you have no idea what I ride nor how I ride it. I was simply asking for information as to why people say that the P3 is not a good bike for a lot of courses. I’m wondering what those courses are.
If somebody had recommended the P3 to the original poster, and then you had still said that the P3 was not good for lots of courses, of course I still would have asked the question. All I’m doing is gathering information here.
-Colin
Colin… when I said not take it personally, I meant it!
Dear AndrewC:
I have been looking at similar bikes and recently rode them all: GURU Aero-Ti, LS Blade, and QR Ti-phoon. Obviously to quote Tom Demerly, the best bike is that which is fit properly. That said, I was most impressed with the LS Blade. Both the QR and LS have internalized cables (whatever you call it) which gives a very clean look. Also, the Blade looks very “aero.” Lastly the Blade rode the best of the 3 (IMO). Though the GURU aero-Ti is a beautiful bike, it is the same as last years bike (except different decals), costs more ($600-$1000), and does not have the internalized cables (right or wrong). My 2 cents.
when I said not take it personally, I meant it!
Point well taken.
Well, before you consider these two bikes as “interchangeable” do this:
Find out what size in eahc frame you feel will fit you.
Then, meausre the head tubes.
Wow! Look at that!
Now, which bike will fit you better- they are at opposite ends of the head tube spectrum.
Andrew,
I looked at the Guru AeroTi too.
Very nice indeed!
You won’t have a hard time finding your steed in T1…thats for sure.
P3 …what can I say?
If it fits you, its deadly fast.
But, all bikes will work one way ,or another.
So don’t limit yourself too much(unless, you have abnormally disproportionate torso-leg lenght) on fit.
You can always fine-tune w/ your FIST guy by varying stem length,saddle adjustment,…they’ll all fit you one way or another.
There’s nothing wrong with shopping a bike for its visceral appeal.
As an aside,my winter project bike is almost done.
I was inspired by some of the shows on the Discovery Channel like Pimp My Ride, and OC Choppers.
So,I took a very entry-level tri bike that most people would ignore for the most part…won it at a raffle a few years ago.
Found out that the frame itself weighed in at 3.1 lbs and has the most amazing welds…so I knew it had awesome potential.
Stripped it down to frame/fork…added an Ultegra/DA kit I had bought for not much $$ on Ebay some years back…added some Spinergy Tillium Stealths, FSA Carbon Crank, Vision Aero kit for the cockpit,and some other speed bling…all discounted Ebay finds… and man oh man does this bike look wicked!
Weighs in at a smidge under 18lbs w/o fluid in the bottles.
And the total cost of this bike is much less than a P2K…even if I had to buy the bike.
It was fun turning a bike that was pretty much like a Honda Civic into
a lean mean Ferrari of a bike.
I took it for a quick ride this past weekend, and I was all smiles.
She’ll hang w/ my Caliente any day…which cost me $ 2300.00 before the Zipps and other accoutrements .
I still haven’t met a bike I wouldn’t take home…love em all.
Good Luck,
Fish
If your “fitter” does this to your “get your bike to fit”, this is far from an optimal configuration. This is what a bike looks like when someone bought the wrong frame for their body dimensions: 
I hear the “You can make anything fit” argument all the time- I’ve even heard some version of it from Cervelo’s president. And you know what, it’s absolutely 100% true: You can “make” anything fit. But what it boils down to is this: When you spend a substantial $3000+ sum on a bike are your expectations aligned more toward an optimal fit, or a compromised adapted fit and the mechnical, handling and safety limitations that accompany it?
Look at the photo above. There are shops that would, in good conscience, call that O.K. But to me it clearly demonstrates the customer should have been sold a bike with a slightly higher head tube if this configuration constitutes their best, most comfortable riding posture. I consider the above photo a very serious compromise and would never ride it myself, and would advise a customer the same way. It affects steer tube strength in a crash (and over normal wear and tear), affects steering and headset adjustment and out of the saddle climbing characteristics. And looks? Well, if looks are all you are concerned about and your bike looks like this, well, our aesthetic tastes in bicycle configuration just differ substantially, that’s all.
Yup, you can make anything fit just fine. And that has led me to wonder why they don’t make all running shoes in size 14 and then we just stuff the toes with paper until it takes up the slack.
Maybe you can make anything fit, but for $3K- at least for my money- I want more than a stack of spacers and some smoke and mirrors with stem length to “make it fit”.
AndrewC,
If you can afford the LS Blade (and it fits) I would recommend it. I have an older Blade and love the bike. However, after riding the new Blade I have broken down and placed an order for the '05 replacement. Both absorb road vibration well but the '05 is lighter and more responsive. Maybe I’m imagining it. However, I definitely feel as if the '05 climbs a bit better. A little stiffer in the BB area and if you weigh over 210 you will appreciate it.
Internal cable routing has pro/cons. If you do your own cabling… it’s a pain…if you shop it out…who cares. My current frame chews up cable housing due to the aggressive bends. After swearing my way through one cable swap I’ve decided to pay the $20 and watch someone else swear at the bike.
Last note: avoid painting the frame no matter who tells you it’s a good idea. The natural ti is a blessing when it comes to shipping (no need to worry about scratches).
Best of Luck
-Andrew
Well Tom, this is a great point, and the picture really brings it home. So I want to ask what is appropriate for the customer to do when trying to find a good fitting bike and what he or she should expect from the shop.
My tri bike (P3) front end looks just like your picture, four spacers under the stem (3 big, 1 medium) and three above the stem (1 big, 1 medium, 1 small). I bought this bike in May from a very good store (Mission Bay), but have been considering selling it this season for a similar or slightly higher-end bike that fits better, especially since I am doing my first two IM’s this year. To be fair, I don’t think the bike fits me poorly, as I do not have any pain during or after rides, but I do not like the look of the front end (appearances are NOT very important to me, though), and I am not comfortable cornering and descending on it. I was able to do a 5:24 1/2 IM with a 2:30 bike split on it, so I think it is a very good bike.
When I bought it last May, I called and said something like “I’m interested in getting a tri bike, and I am interested in the P3, but when I come up I would like your advice on which bike would best fit me.” They asked my height and told me that the 55cm P3 in stock would be good. After several more calls to discuss price, components, etc, I made the 2+ hour drive up.
When I got there, the P3 was ready for me, and the front end was already set up with the spacers. I got on the trainer for a bit, they adjusted the saddle A LITTLE BIT and I was set to go. They didn’t even take my questions about flipping the seat post head on the cervelo post very seriously. I would like to say that Bill was not around when I was there, and they the guys at mission bay gave me a great deal and were very helpful aside from the fitting. I have since spoken with Bill about other things, and when I go back, I’ll be sure to have an appointment with him?
So where did I go wrong? Was is that I said that I was interested in the P3? When I got it I was definitely not very fit savvy (still not very). Since I live 2+ hours away, I can’t easily go in and look at/size bikes. Is it appropriate for me to call and say “I’m interested in a tri bike, I’m this tall, what do you recommend?”. Or would it be reasonable to make the drive up once before the purchase for measurements and some rudimentary fitting? Should this be included? What if they don’t have many models in my size range? What is the normal turn around in the industry?
What are the key measurements? How do I determine what size head-tube I need? Are there any numbers I could send to you so that you could recommend a range of sizes or, say, cervelo, guru, felt, QR, etc? Or would a picture of me on the cervelo help?
I apologize for the length of this post. I’m really just trying to figure it all out. I really appreciate any insight.
Thanks,
-Colin