I’m training for a 25km open water race (P2P Rottnest) in 4 weeks. I was swimming more open water sessions per week, but have slowly changed back to mostly squad swimming in a pool with only 1 ows per week. I was finding that I wasn’t getting much bang for your buck with the open water sessions, especially if swimming in perfect conditions. I’d get out the water feeling fine after a 4 or 5km swim, whereas with squad I’m absolutely shagged and I feel that’s why my swimming is improving.
But then I think about it, I’m doing 100s, 200s, 400s on a time cycle, how relevant is that to a 25km open water swim? It’s a very different type of training. It would be like training for a marathon only doing 800m interval sessions on the track. However, I know that if I did a 1km TT now, I would be significantly faster than if I had only been swimming open water sessions.
There are guys that have complained their swimming has not improved much over the last few months, they squad swim once and open water swim 4 times per week. I’m swimming 6 times in the pool, once in the ocean. So I kind of think I’m doing the right thing. I’ve raced a lot in shitty conditions so it’s not like I need to become accustomed to swimming in crap. What do you reckon??
There are 2 things at play here. I think in general, you don’t get faster doing majority of your swims in OW venue. You improve that skillset which is important for triathletes / ow swimmers. But in terms of actually being faster as a swimmer, you get that from the pool. If you can add weekly ow swim sessions like you are doing to hone in the ow skills adaption…you are in a good spot.
But yes if your mates who are swimming mostly outdoors, they won’t necessarily “get faster”. They’ll get hella comfortable in those conditions and venues, but it’s not generally advised to do it like that. Your structure of majority pool sessions + ow weekly session will get imo the best bang for buck.
The real trick is figuring out if you actually suck at ow venues. If you do, then it’s one of those things closer to the race, you add another session just to work on body position while sighting, etc…feeding while in the water, etc for a 25km distance, etc Because yes you will be faster by pool swimming, but if you really struggle at the ow venue, it’s something where you’d just add an extra ow swim in the build up. But I would think most would suggest doing majority of pool swims + ow swim to supplement.
Ky Hurst swam at the Miami Pool with Dennis Cottrel’s elite squad along with most of the top Uncle Tobys/Nutrigrain guys before he moved to Sydney.All of the open water people do the bulk of their training in the pool with open water skill sessions done seperately(Ky’s OW coach was Craig Riddington)
Here is a sample of his monster sets…
Epic workout (50m long course pool) 10 x400m - 2 x (3 on 4.30 and 2 on 4.20) another workout was 50 x100m leaving on 1.10 min for 40 and leaving on 1.05 for 10, holding all of them under 1.02 minutes Here he is on Greg Bennett’s podcast…(He wants to do his first 70.3 this year) Ky Hurst - Ironman Champion, Multiple Olympic swim teams, Professional sailor (bennettendurance.com)
I used to swim at the Palm Beach Currumbin pool on the Gold Coast and one day the elite open water girls were in there training and Susie Maroney was in the lane next to me… She was next level crazy.
I’m training for a 25km open water race (P2P Rottnest) in 4 weeks. I was swimming more open water sessions per week, but have slowly changed back to mostly squad swimming in a pool with only 1 ows per week. I was finding that I wasn’t getting much bang for your buck with the open water sessions, especially if swimming in perfect conditions. I’d get out the water feeling fine after a 4 or 5km swim, whereas with squad I’m absolutely shagged and I feel that’s why my swimming is improving.
But then I think about it, I’m doing 100s, 200s, 400s on a time cycle, how relevant is that to a 25km open water swim? It’s a very different type of training. It would be like training for a marathon only doing 800m interval sessions on the track. However, I know that if I did a 1km TT now, I would be significantly faster than if I had only been swimming open water sessions.
There are guys that have complained their swimming has not improved much over the last few months, they squad swim once and open water swim 4 times per week. I’m swimming 6 times in the pool, once in the ocean. So I kind of think I’m doing the right thing. I’ve raced a lot in shitty conditions so it’s not like I need to become accustomed to swimming in crap. What do you reckon??
I did nearly all OW last season due to pool closures from March, and when they did open most had shiite short faffy openings and 30 min slots etc . And club swimming was still banned until about Sept too (don’t try to find logic where I can swim with 30 different total strangers but not with 24 club mates in well distanced pods of 4 or 5).
I didn’t get much quicker on 200 or 400 time trials (maybe a little bit from general fitness but not much really). But I got a LOT more comfortable with doing 5 or 6 or 7k without being at all tired. What did happen is the point where i tired and my technique started to fall down got further out. So my speed didn’t start to drop until further into the swim. (My long swim event was 12k not 25 - but I think you get the point).
Ky Hurst swam at the Miami Pool with Dennis Cottrel’s elite squad along with most of the top Uncle Tobys/Nutrigrain guys before he moved to Sydney.All of the open water people do the bulk of their training in the pool with open water skill sessions done seperately(Ky’s OW coach was Craig Riddington)
Here is a sample of his monster sets…
Epic workout (50m long course pool) 10 x400m - 2 x (3 on 4.30 and 2 on 4.20) another workout was 50 x100m leaving on 1.10 min for 40 and leaving on 1.05 for 10, holding all of them under 1.02 minutes Here he is on Greg Bennett’s podcast…(He wants to do his first 70.3 this year) Ky Hurst - Ironman Champion, Multiple Olympic swim teams, Professional sailor (bennettendurance.com)
I used to swim at the Palm Beach Currumbin pool on the Gold Coast and one day the elite open water girls were in there training and Susie Maroney was in the lane next to me… She was next level crazy.
Not sure if there’s typically a lot of wave, chop, swell in the Rottnest swim but if you’re very comfortable with swimming through all of that then you should stick with your current training. I find that training more in OW is useful if you’re not used to the OW conditions … doing the squad swimming and making sure you’re hitting your distance/volume targets would probably be more important if you’re as comfortable as a fish in OW.
The big mistake is comparing a 25km open water swim to training for a marathon run. Technique and fitness are tightly intertwined in swimming. It’s a lot easier to develop both of those simultaneously in the pool with short, fast repeats than in swimming continuously in open water or continuously in the pool. Your ability to focus on holding technique together when fatigued is the most valuable skill you can develop and you’ll see the biggest gains in open water because of that skill development.
I agree with the above posters that you’ll get faster from the pool swimming, and doing four out of five sessions outside isn’t good for your stroke or speed.
Having said that, and this is the big but, I think it’s really important to have a long swim that’s much longer than the 4000-5000 sessions you’re talking about, that allows for swimming without flip turns, finding your longer aerobic pace (which is probably slower than you think), experimenting with feeds, and building up your aerobic swimming system.
25k is a different beast altogether to a 1500 or even 5k. It deserves respect.
I agree with the above posters that you’ll get faster from the pool swimming, and doing four out of five sessions outside isn’t good for your stroke or speed.
Having said that, and this is the big but, I think it’s really important to have a long swim that’s much longer than the 4000-5000 sessions you’re talking about, that allows for swimming without flip turns, finding your longer aerobic pace (which is probably slower than you think), experimenting with feeds, and building up your aerobic swimming system.
25k is a different beast altogether to a 1500 or even 5k. It deserves respect.
Good advice! I’m doing the 20km Rottnest race this year and have had a coach, training has been much better, much more relevant and focussed. Last year when I was squad swimming, I did a few 5/6km ocean swims and 5km max pool swims. This year pool swims (away from the squad) have been 7-10km. All at a CSS+8 pace. So as you said, a pace a lot slower than you think. A main set which might be 2km/1.5/1 x 2 would all be done at 1.40 pace for the first then 1.38 pace for the second. Seems too slow to start with. But yeah it’s been really good doing them at a set pace with a beeper to keep me on track. The first 200m are a nightmare though. You’re trying to hit 50m in 50s and come in at 42, 43 lol.
Yeah 100%. I think those long 7km+ swim sets in the pool have really helped. Just dialing in my set pace and sitting on it. I’ve done a few open water training swims, but not heaps. And have done 5 open water races 5-10km which have been pretty good.
I think most the others have hit on your best course, do most of your yardage in the pool if you can. Are you able to get more than the usual hour? If so, then do some 10k swims in the pool with some interval work thrown in.
But it is good to do the occasional long OW swim. I know for me, my back gets hit hard when I dont do all those flip turns, and that takes some training to get that part strong. There is also the never ending stroke cycle affect, you need to have felt what it is like to never stop swimming for hours and hours. All that doesn’t have to be fast either, just long…Good luck, let us know how it goes…
I think most the others have hit on your best course, do most of your yardage in the pool if you can. Are you able to get more than the usual hour? If so, then do some 10k swims in the pool with some interval work thrown in.
But it is good to do the occasional long OW swim. I know for me, my back gets hit hard when I dont do all those flip turns, and that takes some training to get that part strong. There is also the never ending stroke cycle affect, you need to have felt what it is like to never stop swimming for hours and hours. All that doesn’t have to be fast either, just long…Good luck, let us know how it goes…
Cool thanks.
Yeah I had a 10km set today, which is my last long swim. That was 2km/1.5/1 x 2 + warmup on 1.40/100m for the first and 1.38/100m for the second set. We just need good weather and for the sharks to be on holiday.
I was supposed to be in your neighborhood to ride IndiPac next month but bailed because of the ongoing Covid restriction. I entered IMWA instead and will be in Busso in December and will ride home to Qld afterwards.If you are going to be down there then I’ll have to buy you a beer or two.
I was supposed to be in your neighborhood to ride IndiPac next month but bailed because of the ongoing Covid restriction. I entered IMWA instead and will be in Busso in December and will ride home to Qld afterwards.If you are going to be down there then I’ll have to buy you a beer or two.
How did you go at the P2P 25km last year? Did you learn much that you’re bringing to this year’s swim?
Hope you have a good one at Rotto.
i did the 20km in the end. The guy I was doing tandem solo with wasn’t confident of making the cut off times after the Port authority changed it 4 days before. Conditions were good, strong currents though and I blew up at 15km. A combination of lack of training and nutrition wasn’t great. I went 8.29. I should go a few hours quicker this time round. All the guys coming out the water with me during the 5 and 10km races have been 5.30-6.30 for their Rottnest crossings. But anything can happen on the day. Shit weather means times will be slow. I’ve definitely learned a lot with my coach. The longer swim sets using a timing beeper have really helped.