Overtrained: what kind of rest and how much?

Triathlon Forum
1

Training-wise, I’ve recently hit a wall and feel completely exhausted. My joints feel stiff and body isn’t limber. Speed is all but gone. It’s hard to fall asleep yet even harder to wake up. Have been contemplating “just taking a week off”.

Additional background:

  • I’m primarily focused on Olympic distance. Oh, and I guess I am oldish (54)
  • Having been keeping a fitness log since 2000. In the past 20 years, I have done some form of exercise (swim/bike/run) at least once in a week for every year - except one week in 2006 when I had ACL surgery
  • In those 20 years, weekly averages are 2,278 yards swimming, 49 miles biking, 8 miles running
  • This year, average has been 3,120 swim, 68 bike, 11 run
  • BUT, for the past 7 weeks, I increased swimming by 100% (62k/week) and cycling by 30% (86mi/week). Running is even. Swimming has 2 hard sessions/week. Cycling is at least one Zwift high intensity workout and one hard ride.
  • Having significant hip/knee/IT band issues. IT band is pulling the right knee cap out of alignment which has reduced flexibility and sometimes causes swelling. Left hip and glute have occasional issues as well. I’ve been seeing a physio once/week but it’s not making huge progress.

So what should I do? Just shut it down for a week or longer - do nothing? Or just do far less at low intensity?
What do you all do?

Many thanks

2

I’ve got a few years on you. Mounting injuries (calf, hamstring, hip) in this pandemic led me to take big chunks off (ie, several weeks). Am back to training but won’t resume in fully until 2021.

Take time off. Smell the metaphoric roses. Do things totally new to you. Learn to bake, learn to cook an ethnic cuisine, study a foreign language in earnest, watch foreign films you never would, read recent award winning books, sponsor a child abroad.

Doing something totally new and outside your paradigm will reinvent and refresh you.

The fitness will return.

See you on the course in the Spring.

3

Off for a few days. If you track your resting heart rate - an elevated resting heart rate is a good clue for overtraining. You kind of need an idea of your baseline to know if it’s elevated though.

Focus on drinking water, clean food and reducing stress. Try to get good sleep.

It could be overtraining but also it could be lots of other things. A few days off may help you begin to figure it out.

4

I’d take two weeks off, personally.

I once truly overtrained and that required multiple months off completely, then another few months easy. It was close to a year total lost before I could resemble normal training.

If you reach that stage, you’re truly destroyed. Don’t reach that stage.

5

Dr. Kevin Sprouse (one of EF’s team doctors) does a podcast, one of the episodes dives into Overreaching, Overtraining, etc. Worth a listen (as well as many of the other’s)

6

I strained a calf playing tennis with my wife. I was running around 55 miles per week since March. I shut it down for 4 weeks and went on 4-5 mile walks listening to podcasts in the early am most days. It was actually enjoyable and I feel 10x better after three weeks off. Back on training schedule, but I needed the rest.

7

I tend to think that everyone’s overtraining is a little different, and there’s no universal prescription. It can range from over-reaching that you can bounce back quickly from to devastatingly broken physiology that can take a year . I’d guess from your description that you’re not in too deep.

I can tell you what worked for me in situations like that with no claim that it might work for you.

What I’ve done is continue to “work out” at the usual times for a couple of weeks, but dial the intensity and volume back to all but nothing. E.g. in place of the Zwift high intensity workout, do a 1.2 W/kg social ride. Maybe even just for 20 minutes. Or set your FTP to 80W and do an easy workout. Swimming - just lazily do some some laps - or easy kicking. Running, go for nice walks, maybe break into a light jog for a few minutes.

This worked for me, I think, because of my “OCD-like” need to maintain a regular pattern of activity. Having worked out almost every day for over 30 years I’m basically unable to do “nothing.” It makes me less happy even then really bad overtraining.

8

Training-wise, I’ve recently hit a wall and feel completely exhausted. My joints feel stiff and body isn’t limber. Speed is all but gone. It’s hard to fall asleep yet even harder to wake up. Have been contemplating “just taking a week off”.

…

sessions/week. Cycling is at least one Zwift high intensity workout and one hard ride.

  • Having significant hip/knee/IT band issues. IT band is pulling the right knee cap out of alignment which has reduced flexibility and sometimes causes swelling. Left hip and glute have occasional issues as well. I’ve been seeing a physio once/week but it’s not making huge progress.

So what should I do? Just shut it down for a week or longer - do nothing? Or just do far less at low intensity?
What do you all do?

Many thanks

I’m on the same page as Trail. It doesn’t sound like true over-training, but more along the over-reaching line. But, you are clearly having issues that you should not ignore. So, I would dial it back. At this stage, at most I’d take a 2-3 days off (excluding your injury issues…see below). Then, I’d re-establish a normal training SCHEDULE, but with 50% volume (or less) and just easy (nothing hard). I’d keep at that until I felt good. Then, I’d increase volumes gradually (without intensity), until you get back to your normal volume. Its only at that point, if still feeling GOOD that I would start to add in some intensity.

The tricky part is your PFS/ITBS/Hip issues, though…and, I’m not sure I agree with the characterization for the mechanism of your PFS. These overuse injuries generally are a result of strength/ imbalances, and/or poor activation patterns…particularly in the stabilizer muscles between the rib cage and the knees. If it bothers you while on the bike, I’d look at getting a bike fit…or post a video here of you pedaling at power on a trainer (rear-view and side-view with clear view of hips/knees/ankles). I would expect you to have a heavy strength an stability program. But, that takes upwards of 6 months to pay dividends—albeit its a lifetime’s worth from there.

Regardless, managing overuse injuries is tricky…and largely depends on how bad it is, and how long its been going on for, and your own ability to recover/heal. I recently went through a bout of PFS (not from training, but rather working on my deck)—I took 8 days completely off, and then 3 weeks to rebuild volume (no intensity in week 1-2, 50% intensity in week 3). I’m back to normal volume/intensity this week…5 weeks later, from an very minor, acute occurrence.

So, my suggestion above for 2-3 days off followed by steady increase in easy volume, may be too short given your injury issues. Its hard to say. The #1 rule with overuse is NO-PAIN. If it hurts back off, and give it more time. For me, some light activity seems better than ZERO…again, as long as you can find something that doesn’t hurt. Its definitely a situation where you have to let your body lead the way, not your mind.

For what its worth…the balance in your training program seems off, to me. perhaps something to think about while resting/healing.

9

Sometime between October and January I take a full month of recovery every year. Sometimes it is a full month with no training if I don’t have any early season races and had a long course race late in the fall. Other years I might just do 1 week fully off then do a few really short light intensity work a week for a few weeks with the focus on loosening up and working out any stiffness or soreness with the workouts. When I do come back I start small and build slow so I can keep the legs fresh for as long as I can. If I build slow enough I can get back to a full load to start the next season feeling fresh.

10

I agree with Tom and trail
.

11

If I were experiencing those things, I would go to my general MD and get a physical done and request a blood panel. It might not be training related at all.

12

I agree with Tom and trail

I agree with Tom and trail as well. Rest and recovery is underappreciated, particularly as we get older.

To the OP, I’m the same age as you (54yo) and am discovering that I need to dial back the frequency of high intensity workouts. I still do them, just not as many of them.

Several things have helped me go from routinely overtraining/burnout to feeling good/strong/“springy”:
Easy Days. My “easy” days are truly easy days - keeping HR down, never getting a burn going in the legs on the bike or run, open turn “lazy” swimming. The effort difference between my easy days and my hard days has never been greater and its showing in the fitness I have.Days Off. In terms of taking days off, once I figured out that taking days off is a GOOD thing and not a BAD thing (I’m a chucklehead and it took a long time to understand that), my fitness improved. Give yourself permission to take 1 or more days off. Don’t feel guilty about it.Off-season. It’s OK to have an off-season and shut things down. This year my cycling mileage is the highest it’s been in ~30 years (benefit of working from home with everything going on with Covid). By mid-October, I was ready to shut the bike down for 4-5 week and have largely done so (I’ll do 1-2 short easy rides/week, but that’s it), but I also ramp up my swim volume. For the last 5ish years I’ve done this and it honestly helps me. December - February are cold, dark months so much of the cycling is on a trainer indoors. Once I get back on the bike in December after the 4-5 week layoff, I’m hungry and motivated all winter long on the trainer. One thing that I do want to point out is that as we get older, training consistency is important. So, while I am shutting down one activity, I’m ramping up another which enables me to remain reasonably fit.Prioritizing sleep. I used to cut my sleep hours short to get in the early morning workout. I will still do the early morning workout BUT only if I wake up on my own (instead of having an alarm go off). By getting more sleep I swear I get more work done on the job front in a shorter amount of time (better focus) which is freeing up time for workouts that I didn’t get in the past.
Good luck with things! May you find the path that works for you to get healthy and rested!

13

What I find funny…is that there is NOTHING in that list which is for “masters athletes” only. All the same things apply to the young’ns. If only I knew then what I know now…

I’m 52, and likewise have learned those same lessons. Especially the sleep and the one complete day-off—although, I break that rule during things like the 100/100 and similar races/challenges. However, I’ve learned how to manage that…along the way.

14

Fatigue and body aches are both symptoms of Covid-19. Maybe get tested just to be safe?

15

I’m glad age was mentioned. I kept training like I was 30, into my 50’s. By 54 I was feeling it, just like you. I started throwing out the HIIT, started training completely by feel, and doing a lot more junk miles, but kept racing a couple times a month. I started breaking down at 57, and fell apart at 58. Interestingly it was knee trouble that slowed me down the most, and kept me away from deep fatigue. Then a severe ankle sprain slowed me down even more at 59, and then covid hit. The silver lining of no racing, is that I’ve learned that age has changed all the rules for me. It’s no longer about better/faster/stronger/progress/improvement at the cost of health. I’ve spent most of 2020 coming to terms with the fact that its all about slowing the decline, while staying healthy. I don’t reduce my training time/volume, but I reduce my intensity down to enjoyable, even junk, when I feel something hurting, or any type of fatigue. At 60, I’m feeling better than I have in years. And accept the fact that you are going to slow down. Because the harder you try not to, the more you’re going to hurt, get injured, and overtrain.

16

Wow, there is so much good stuff here, thank you all!
It’s amazing how slowtwitch is like cognitive group therapy.

A few observations about the feedback

  • I do think I need to slow down but not completely stop. Just don’t know what I would do! Like many have indicated, actually stopping would create huge issues with OCD.
  • The biggest net new is fatigue and loss of limberness. Often times I need to use a railing to go down stairs. Bending over to pick something up is done cautiously.
  • There are very strong indications that this is a sign of age. It’s interesting, when I turned 50 I was pretty much at the peak of mental and physical fitness though likely on the razors edge of injury. My cycling and swimming times were as good or better than in my twenties though running was a lot slower. In fact, I was able to participate at World’s in Cozumel and even got 8th in the AG. A lot of other friends seemed to peak at around 50 years as well. But heading in to the next age group, you can see how times just drop off a cliff. My ego is still thinking I’m 50 but my body doesn’t agree.

And, I think I here is the clearest answer: looking more closely at training data, this past 7 week block has been a substantial increase vs when I was training for Worlds in 2016

  • Swimming volume is 21% higher
  • Cycling 47% higher
  • Running 31% higher
    For what it’s worth, the reason for the increase in training? We dropped our oldest daughter off at college; her first year as a freshman. For some reason that triggered this change.

Next steps:

  • I have a physical next week and got the blood test results yesterday; will see if I need an MRI for the right knee in addition to myriad related questions esp about fatigue and sleep
  • Going to limit swimming to 3x week max, only one hard effort
  • Shorter, low intensity rides
  • Running based on feel
  • Start tracking resting HR. I have been tracking blood pressure daily to feed the OCD side, maybe it’s time to start with the HR.

Thanks all!

17

OCD has been a big issue for me too. I was hobbling around in a knee brace, and limping on a bumb ankle, and friends were screaming at me to rest-rest-rest-rest. And I just can’t do that. I’m a mental wreck when I rest. So I would go to the gym and ride the elliptical. Or use my old ski machine in the basement. When I couldn’t even kick or push off in the pool, I swam my ass off with a buoy. I’ve done a lot of weight lifting, for muscles that were fine, while, like you, had trouble going down stairs and picking stuff up off the floor. I’m a lot more happy doing something, anything, even if its not all that effective… than resting and doing nothing and being totally miserable. Very long story short, I’m a very addictive personality, and have a past with negative addictions. Triathlon and athletics literally saved my life.

18

For what its worth…the balance in your training program seems off, to me. perhaps something to think about while resting/healing.

Very curious - what do you think the program should be?

19

Why reduce your swimming? Lower bike and run levels will give you ample time to fit in pool sessions. And the weightless nature of the sport may actually help you recover from stiff joints and the myriad lower body issues you are having. And why just one hard session in the pool a week? Recovery from swim hard swim sessions occurs much more rapidly than gravity based workouts so you should be able to do some fast swimming in virtually every session. You have the ability to take a break from what ails you and keep your cardio fitness. I’d embrace the swim not reduce it during this time.

20

i agree with Dinsky11 in that you can recover a lot faster from swimming than you can from the bike/run. And that is when you are doing hard workouts as well. I’m 62, went through a major overtraining bout 5 years ago from running ridiculous amounts of mileage which I hadn’t done since I was in my 20’s. It took a solid year to get back running. At that time, I embarked on a swim regimen that has continued to this day. I was overseas so I didn’t have access to a US masters program, but swam at least 4x per week and most weeks were 6 swims, which consisted of high intensity, i.e. 50s and 100s, up to 400y/m cruise intervals. And yes, swimming is a great way to maintain your aerobic engine. My suggestion is don’t ignore the pool and what hydrotherapy can do for you.