Thoughts on changing/upgrading an oversized pulley wheel system for my triathlon bike?
Guys at the bike shop are trying to continue to sell me speed - is it worth an upgrade from my standard stock system? If so - how much is worth spending on upgrading?
I asked about upgrading my chain to a CeramicSpeed for about $200 which was my original thought, but they’re asserting that I should rather upgrade to an oversized pulley wheel system for about $600 instead.
Is a $200 chain or $600 pulley system worth the upgrade for a mediocre, middle of the pack cyclist?
Thoughts on changing/upgrading an oversized pulley wheel system for my triathlon bike?
Guys at the bike shop are trying to continue to sell me speed - is it worth an upgrade from my standard stock system? If so - how much is worth spending on upgrading?
I asked about upgrading my chain to a CeramicSpeed for about $200 which was my original thought, but they’re asserting that I should rather upgrade to an oversized pulley wheel system for about $600 instead.
Is a $200 chain or $600 pulley system worth the upgrade for a mediocre, middle of the pack cyclist?
Having met with the guys from Ceramic Speed, I can tell you the hierarchy of “speed” starts with their wheel bearing and bottom brackets, then the chain, then the pulley, then the aero covered pulley. So for improved performance the chain > the pulley.
Thoughts on changing/upgrading an oversized pulley wheel system for my triathlon bike?
Guys at the bike shop are trying to continue to sell me speed - is it worth an upgrade from my standard stock system? If so - how much is worth spending on upgrading?
I asked about upgrading my chain to a CeramicSpeed for about $200 which was my original thought, but they’re asserting that I should rather upgrade to an oversized pulley wheel system for about $600 instead.
Is a $200 chain or $600 pulley system worth the upgrade for a mediocre, middle of the pack cyclist?
For modern “r-series” Shimano RD’s, there are larger pulleys from Kogel that are plug and play without all the expensive longer RD arms to install and screw up shifting. File it under you getting 99% of the gains at 25% the effort and 50% the cost kind of things. Not as bling, but definitely easier/cheaper.
What is “worth” defined as for you. To some people $800 on their “toy” isn’t a big deal. To some people that’s rent. (some of it anyways)
Oversized Pulley’s… there is a measured difference, in the right situations at least. It’s an incredibly expensive proposition when you consider the potential gain vs. cost though.
The chain… $200 is just pretty silly. You can coat your own race chain for a few bucks (an old small crock pot and a bar of gulf wax) and get the vast majority of the gain.
At the pointiest end everything costs more because it gets much, much harder to go from 98% optimized to 98.5% optimized than it does to go from 90% to 98%
End of the day… there are things I think I’d be happier spending $800 on, especially if I wasn’t already at that 98% and losing races by a couple of seconds… but ymmv.
This is helpful - thank you. It sounds like regarding some of the finer, more minute speed/watt improvements that can be purchased are as follows, in order of priority:
This is helpful - thank you. It sounds like regarding some of the finer, more minute speed/watt improvements that can be purchased are as follows, in order of priority:
Ceramic bottom bracket ($300-$500)
Chain ($200)
Oversized pulley ($500-$600)
Aero pulley cover ($600-$800)
Correct, that’s their own objective testing data results.
This is helpful - thank you. It sounds like regarding some of the finer, more minute speed/watt improvements that can be purchased are as follows, in order of priority:
Ceramic bottom bracket ($300-$500)
Chain ($200)
Oversized pulley ($500-$600)
Aero pulley cover ($600-$800)
I went the Kogel route with my bike.
$260 for the bottom bracket
Maybe $80 for the chain? I bought Silca wax and a small cheap crock pot. Cleaned some existing chains REALLY well and just waxed them myself.
Kogel lets you bundle a bottom bracket and OSPW system, which is what I did, to save a bit. But you can also just get pulley wheels for $180.
It’s a lot more work, but spending one weekend testing out positions and doing Chung analysis on different positions is likely to get you 10x the watts savings for free.
Thoughts on changing/upgrading an oversized pulley wheel system for my triathlon bike?
I have the ‘I’m with stupid’ t-shirt with the arrow pointing up - as I’ve fitted an aero pulley wheel (SLF Motion) to my bike for the only reason I think it looks Cool AF. There I said it…
I honestly believe there is zero benefit to one, apart from the looks…
As to chain, I’ve got a race day ready one with the UFO/Teflon coating sat waiting - but for general use - I’ve followed the guide here: https://moltenspeedwax.com/pages/clean-your-chain and completely stripped my chain of factory lubricate and applied one of the super waxes (UFO if it matters) - but again I’m sure a half decent dry wax at 1/8 the cost would be equally good - but it does run alot nicer than a chain which hasn’t been thoroughly degreased and relubed.
I’m a sucker for anything shiny or carbon infused. If you are too, a OSPW (especially the aero ones) will suit you too - but chain first for performance, but even then, just follow the guide and do it yourself.
Thoughts on changing/upgrading an oversized pulley wheel system for my triathlon bike?
Guys at the bike shop are trying to continue to sell me speed - is it worth an upgrade from my standard stock system? If so - how much is worth spending on upgrading?
I asked about upgrading my chain to a CeramicSpeed for about $200 which was my original thought, but they’re asserting that I should rather upgrade to an oversized pulley wheel system for about $600 instead.
Is a $200 chain or $600 pulley system worth the upgrade for a mediocre, middle of the pack cyclist?
things in Canada get VERY boring during the winter. So one year I did this : Powertap on the back, Quarq on the front, a chain link to quickly remove/install the chain’
The idea was to monitor power at the powertap to power at the crank. In theory the more efficient the drivetrain, the closer Quarq/PT = 1.0
I tried REALLY hard. I could not measure a difference with the stock derailleur and the ceramic speed equipped one.
How much power do you think you’ll save by spending $800?
I think Ceramicspeed has some claims on this, but I think those claims are exaggerated. I would guess it’s something like 1W versus a pair of Dura Ace pulleys (which are both steel sealed bearings, Friction Facts’ tests have shown they’re fairly low friction), a bit more versus pulley setups with one or two bushings (Ultegra, 105, most Campy pulleys).
I’d actually be a bit surprised if CS is claiming that the OSPW is more savings than their chain - assuming you’re comparing to some high-quality drip lube plus regular cleaning. Even if you’re comparing their UFO chain to a melt wax, where the savings are going to be a fraction of a watt, that should be more cost effective than a $800 OSPW.
Personally, I got some used Kogel pulley wheels off eBay for a pretty decent deal. Now, if you do that, the problem is that you don’t know how well the previous person maintained them. I did buy one pair that seem like they were run completely unlubed, and I couldn’t rescue them even with regreasing and new seals. Oh well. I don’t know that the Kogels are objectively worth buying on their own, but probably next time I want a new BB, I’d spring for their usual Thanksgiving/Christmas deal where they throw in a pair of pulleys if you buy their BB.
How much power do you think you’ll save by spending $800?
A new set of aero skis is around $800. More comfortable, demonstrably faster than the standard 22.2mm tube extensions, and (IMO) far more blingy than a big pulley wheel.
I love the pictures like this, OSPW saving those crucial fractions of watts, but also loose jersey, vented helmet, cotton socks, spoked rear wheel and a round bottle on the seat tube. (I know it’s just a training ride but it’s still a funny picture)
From a performance perspective no way. The oversized pulley is worth it if you want to look cool, but I wouldn’t be surprised that if you factor aero penalty it’s worse than a regular one. The chain to me the biggest advantage is how clean it is, but I would do it myself as described elsewhere in this forum and save a lot of money, plus your would be able to rinse and repeat.
How much power do you think you’ll save by spending $800?
I think Ceramicspeed has some claims on this, but I think those claims are exaggerated. I would guess it’s something like 1W versus a pair of Dura Ace pulleys (which are both steel sealed bearings, Friction Facts’ tests have shown they’re fairly low friction), a bit more versus pulley setups with one or two bushings (Ultegra, 105, most Campy pulleys).
I’d actually be a bit surprised if CS is claiming that the OSPW is more savings than their chain - assuming you’re comparing to some high-quality drip lube plus regular cleaning. Even if you’re comparing their UFO chain to a melt wax, where the savings are going to be a fraction of a watt, that should be more cost effective than a $800 OSPW.
Personally, I got some used Kogel pulley wheels off eBay for a pretty decent deal. Now, if you do that, the problem is that you don’t know how well the previous person maintained them. I did buy one pair that seem like they were run completely unlubed, and I couldn’t rescue them even with regreasing and new seals. Oh well. I don’t know that the Kogels are objectively worth buying on their own, but probably next time I want a new BB, I’d spring for their usual Thanksgiving/Christmas deal where they throw in a pair of pulleys if you buy their BB.
My comment was really to provoke thought about where to spend $800 to save the most watts vs spending on those items the OP made.
Personally, I wouldn’t spend that much money to save a handful of watts (maybe) unless I’ve eliminated everything else that has a better dollar value and I either needed, or wanted, to save a few more watts.
There’s lower hanging fruit for myself but I really don’t know the OP’s situation. AFAIK the OP may have done many other things and is a racer that depends on prize money.
The discussion of OSPW tends to typically include at least a few replies of “negligible benefit but they look cool.†I would downgrade it even further to “negligible benefit and you look like a sucker.â€
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Is a $200 chain or $600 pulley system worth the upgrade for a mediocre, middle of the pack cyclist?
Short answer is no but what are you expecting to gain from the upgrades?
Unless you are really analyzing your data I doubt you will even notice an improvement in performance. I’d personally put that money towards a power meter, MTB or gravel bike if I didn’t own one and wanted to look to improving my cycling. If you’ve got everything and money is no object then go for it, it’ll probably look cool if nothing else.
