http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/recovery/Stress-Tested.html
Interesting read. Some good tidbits. A regular topic for discussion here.
TL;DR = don’t “assist” your recovery during hard training. It’s okay during taper. Or if you overdo it. Assistance means anything - ice bath, anti-oxidants, etc.
That’s good enough reason for me to never do an ice bath or foam roller. It’s totally not because it’s uncomfortable, and therefore I don’t have to post in the ‘cry like a li’l biatch’ thread.
Interesting read.
One question though…
Would the adaptation you gain from unassisted recovery be more beneficial than the additional training volume you can take on from using the mentioned recovery techniques mentioned in the article?
Interesting… thanks.
I like the first comment: “This is a generally inaccurate, misleading, and misinformed article.”
Interesting read.
One question though…
Would the adaptation you gain from unassisted recovery be more beneficial than the additional training volume you can take on from using the mentioned recovery techniques mentioned in the article?
Volume isn’t how you get stronger/faster/better. Adaptation is.
If you don’t allow the body to get the best, fullest adaptation possible for a given stimulus or period of stimuli, then additional volume is going to suppress you, not make you faster.
Thx for sharing- my favorite part is similar to what people at work ask me about pretty often… “i’m really sore after running, am I running too hard and too often?” what stretches should i do? what protien shake should i drink afterwards? I tell them “If you’re sore, thats the whole point! run more!”
Would a massage or foam roller session be classified as assistance (in this aspect) ?
Exactly. My favorite line: “You might be sore and tired, but sore and tired isn’t overtraining.” In fact, the new research suggests, it’s the whole point.”
So, “no pain-no gain” is right after all.
Would a massage or foam roller session be classified as assistance (in this aspect) ?
It’s not clear. A recent study - ironically pushed out and tweeted/shared by a LOT of massage therapists (and fans of massage therapists) - showed that massage MAY work along similar physiological pathways as common anti-inflammatory drugs. IF that is the case - and if this research is correct - then, yes, it’s entirely plausible that massage could be lumped in as “assistance.”
If you assume a foam roller operates on a similar methodology as massage, then it’s also plausible that a foam roller could fall into the same category. However, in my experience, foam rollers (and the like) tend to be used in targeted applications. I.e., I work my calves - only - when I run a lot. And often just certain parts of my calves. I.e., foam rollers seem to be generally more targeted, more like physical therapy (sort of), as opposed to being all over, like a massage. In other words, I don’t know of anyone that foam rolls his/her entire body; though it wouldn’t surprise me…
Thanks for sharing this, it’s definitely thought-provoking! One thing that really intrigues me in this article is the stuff regarding antioxidants. I guess I can understand the lack of a need to supplement antioxidants, but if we’re eating the healthy fruits and vegetables we’re supposed to be eating, we should be getting a lot of antioxidants naturally, right?
I’m probably an extreme case: I have Lupus. The pain can really suck at times. As my doctor described it, I’m pretty much overdoing it by default. I use the foam roller, the Stick, pay a lot of attention to my recovery foods, take CoQ10, etc. I can get away without foam rolling and self-massage at times, but it is pretty much a daily ritual. If I don’t, I then end up skipping workouts because I can barely get out of bed to do them. So, maybe by doing all this stuff, I’m compromising my (lower than normal) potential performance, but on the other hand, at least I can still work out and participate. It’s pretty hard for me to consider giving this up, given that all the muscle pain is what led me to the doctor and subsequent diagnosis in the first place.
Thanks for bringing this up. I read the article in the magazine a couple of days ago and I’m curious. I use The Stick on my legs every night. Mainly because I run six days a week and The Stick seesm to help my legs feel better for my next scheduled run or ride. Now I’m not sure if that’s a good idea or not.
Makes me wonder though. What if using the antioxidants allow you to accomplish more workouts, which allows you to get more cardiovascular adaptation?
More ironic is that the SweatScience guy wrote about the study:
http://sweatscience.com/muscle-biopsies-show-massage-fights-inflammation/
I would say the increased mitochondrial density would be a good reason to keep massage in the mix, along with what you mention about targeting certain areas. After years of being in this sport I’ve found that one of the essential components I have to keep in at all times is rolling out my quads at least every other day. I haven’t found a way around it, and have years of logs to show that injuries and back spasms happen when I don’t do it. Sounds a lot like your calves.
Makes me wonder though. What if using the antioxidants allow you to accomplish more workouts, which allows you to get more cardiovascular adaptation?
That idea is a fallacy. In other words, you body can only handle so much training load. If you “enhance” your recovery such that you can train more, the net load hasn’t necessarily increased. And, in fact, you are actually just taking more time to achieve the same thing.
Think of it this way. You can run 4 miles. Or you can run three miles, but due to artificial recovery you only get “credit” for two of those miles. Then you run another three miles, but again, only get credit for two because you enhance your recovery. The net load in both cases is four miles. But in the second case, you had to run six miles…
If you recovery faster - artificially - there’s no additional benefit to doing more training. That’s the argument anyway…
Your hypothetical, however, is why anabolic steroids, testosterone, and numerous other PEDs are popular among endurance athletes. They speed up your recovery, but via your body’s natural mechanisms. They just enhance the way your body naturally recovers. So then, you actually can do more training - from a net load perspective. THG was designed expressly along those lines by Balco. It didn’t actually make you bigger/faster/stronger. It allowed to train more so that you could become bigger/faster/stronger.
The concepts in this article do make a lot of intuitive sense. One reason I don’t overdo the antioxidants.
I wonder where supplementing with something like fish oil falls into this? Instinctively to me that is different, although obviously it is better if you can get your omega 3/6/9s through “real” foods.
Jordan (or someone), can you explain a little more about various PEDs working with the body’s natural mechanisms differs from some of the techniques mentioned in the article? I think I have an idea, but not sure how I’d explain it…something about PEDs enhance the natural mechanisms while ice baths/ etc. circumvent them?
Good article. I also think some go overboard on hydration and fueling. I think a little deprivation is good during training:
I find it silly when swimmers bring bottled water/Gatorade to a one-hour workout.
What do you think?
Jordan (or someone), can you explain a little more about various PEDs working with the body’s natural mechanisms differs from some of the techniques mentioned in the article? I think I have an idea, but not sure how I’d explain it…something about PEDs enhance the natural mechanisms while ice baths/ etc. circumvent them?
I think the key difference is that supressing the response results in less inflamation leading to less healing. PEDs allow faster healing of the inflamation and it is the amount of healing that determines the overall progress.
Good article. I also think some go overboard on hydration and fueling. I think a little deprivation is good during training:
I find it silly when swimmers bring bottled water/Gatorade to a one-hour workout.
What do you think?
I started bringing a drink to swim practice a couple months ago. n=1 experience is that it helps with recovery especially when you are swimming 2x a day. I don’t have much fat to burn, so I can easily bonk on the bike on a 2.5hr hard long ride if I only drink water.
If you are doing an easy 1hr then I don’t think you need anything … my swim sessions are around 1h10-1h30. Just swam 2 x 4.5k LCM today … ouch!
Same thing for other sessions. If I have another workout later in the day I try not to run much of a glycogen deficit during the earlier ones.
again … n=1 lol
Would a massage or foam roller session be classified as assistance (in this aspect) ?
It’s not clear. A recent study - ironically pushed out and tweeted/shared by a LOT of massage therapists (and fans of massage therapists) - showed that massage MAY work along similar physiological pathways as common anti-inflammatory drugs. IF that is the case - and if this research is correct - then, yes, it’s entirely plausible that massage could be lumped in as “assistance.”
If you assume a foam roller operates on a similar methodology as massage, then it’s also plausible that a foam roller could fall into the same category. However, in my experience, foam rollers (and the like) tend to be used in targeted applications. I.e., I work my calves - only - when I run a lot. And often just certain parts of my calves. I.e., foam rollers seem to be generally more targeted, more like physical therapy (sort of), as opposed to being all over, like a massage. In other words, I don’t know of anyone that foam rolls his/her entire body; though it wouldn’t surprise me…
What do you think about using the Normatec or another compression device?