Obviously standing while climbing is a requirement during mountain passes such as the Gavia and Stelvio as well as most days during the Giro .
How do they manage to stay out of the saddle for such extended periods of time ?
Is there specific drills to practice this for normal wanna be cyclists .
Will they improve our alround riding skills and are they a necessary component of being a better cyclist.
The best way to train it is probably by doing it. Being able to ride out of the saddle is a good tool to have as sometimes it’s simply necessary but I think you should look at the type of guys who spend the most time out of the saddle. Guys like Quintana, Pozzovivo and Arredondo are tiny. Not just small but truly tiny all of them are about 5’ 5" and and maybe 125 lbs. If you’re a bigger or even an average-sized guy compared to those three than you’re probably better off doing most of your climbing seated. Also I have heard that this transfers over better to TT’ing.
Obviously standing while climbing is a requirement during mountain passes such as the Gavia and Stelvio as well as most days during the Giro .
How do they manage to stay out of the saddle for such extended periods of time ?
Is there specific drills to practice this for normal wanna be cyclists .
Will they improve our alround riding skills and are they a necessary component of being a better cyclist.
Standing out of the saddle is horribly inefficient and spikes your HR. Most people think it’s a good idea, but it’s not. Pro cyclists do it to give their main mover muscles a break during large climbs and as ^ post mentions, they are like twigs, literally. Single digit BF and massive hearts. Unless you train standing climbs a lot, best to stay seated unless your legs can’t take it (e.g., 2-3 mile, 8-10% grade; or 5-6% average with sections of 10% - think Hogpen Gap in N. Georgia) - HTFU! If your legs can’t take it - walk. Your knees and everything else probably can’t take it, either.
In part, this may be one of those triathlon is diffirent from bike racing is different from touring/recreational things.
There are times during all three where riding out of the saddle makes sense, and how big you are plays are role in how frequent it may make sense to be out of the saddle. In a road race or even a crit, however, often the decisive moment comes when you are or should be of the saddle. If you’re racing bikes, it may make sense to train riding out of the saddle more.
In part, this may be one of those triathlon is diffirent from bike racing is different from touring/recreational things.
There are times during all three where riding out of the saddle makes sense, and how big you are plays are role in how frequent it may make sense to be out of the saddle. In a road race or even a crit, however, often the decisive moment comes when you are or should be of the saddle. If you’re racing bikes, it may make sense to train riding out of the saddle more.
Agree. Crit is all about knowing when to “burn matches” - try this during a TT or bike leg of a tri, and you’re gonna have a bad time. Hell, I saw people out of the saddle climbing 1694 in IMLou. I just shook my head as I passed them, seated. That said, some people are just “mashers” …
Recommend: get comfortable with changing saddle position - slide back to engage different muscles yet retain pedaling efficiency, cadence, and to keep HR low. I always race with a 50/34 or 52/36 if course is hilly. And by hilly I mean mountains - not IMLou (those are hillz).
Seated climbing is more efficient, but standing CAN be done efficiently. You need to think less about mashing and more about “dancing” on the pedals - shift your weight back and try not to have your upper body flopping around too much. It is a good way to maintain speed on sudden increases in grade or to break up the monotony of long seated climbs. It is like learning how to run silently - keeping the parts moving that are producing forward motion and keeping the rest still.
Personally I’ve had to improve my standing climb to REDUCE the stress on my knees & hips - as compared to seated.
Drills? If you really want, try to climb standing while keeping your cadence over eighty - and try to keep your weight over the crank spindle.
As far as utility: probably not so useful unless you train on the Stelvio or Alpe d’Huez. Seated climbing is easier to get right, and stand/mash works if you really need it.
I’m a cyclist. I ride out of saddle a ton. Especially on HC climbs to vary muscle use. Also to sprint.
If you use the correct gears you can manage HR. But it can be dangerous…for sure in race conditions. Lance Armstrong was amazing out of saddle too.
But wouldn’t you want to save these muscles for the run? Based on my experience on the bike I would be scared to get too aggressive out of saddle with a run right after! But in a bike race no question out of saddle is a big weapon.
Standing to climb doesn’t have to be a hard effort. Sometimes on long climbs standing for a decent period at a tempo pace can feel really nice and give your muscles and butt a break. It doesn’t really take much practice, just some thought to keep your pace in check. FWIW, I do this and i weigh 200 lbs.
Obviously standing while climbing is a requirement during mountain passes such as the Gavia and Stelvio as well as most days during the Giro .
How do they manage to stay out of the saddle for such extended periods of time ?
Is there specific drills to practice this for normal wanna be cyclists .
Will they improve our alround riding skills and are they a necessary component of being a better cyclist.
Standing out of the saddle is horribly inefficient and spikes your HR. Most people think it’s a good idea, but it’s not. Pro cyclists do it to give their main mover muscles a break during large climbs and as ^ post mentions, they are like twigs, literally. Single digit BF and massive hearts. Unless you train standing climbs a lot, best to stay seated unless your legs can’t take it (e.g., 2-3 mile, 8-10% grade; or 5-6% average with sections of 10% - think Hogpen Gap in N. Georgia) - HTFU! If your legs can’t take it - walk. Your knees and everything else probably can’t take it, either.Standing isn’t less efficient than sitting it’s just that generally people put out more power when standing so they get tired faster.
Level ground and uphill cycling efficiency in seated and standing positions.
CONCLUSION:
Gradient or body position appears to have a negligible effect on external efficiency in field-based high-intensity cycling exercise. Greater short-term power can be produced in standing position, presumably due to a greater force developed per revolution. However, the technical features of the standing position may be one of the most determining factors affecting the metabolic responses.
Obviously standing while climbing is a requirement during mountain passes such as the Gavia and Stelvio as well as most days during the Giro .
How do they manage to stay out of the saddle for such extended periods of time ?
Is there specific drills to practice this for normal wanna be cyclists .
Will they improve our alround riding skills and are they a necessary component of being a better cyclist.
Standing out of the saddle is horribly inefficient and spikes your HR. Most people think it’s a good idea, but it’s not. Pro cyclists do it to give their main mover muscles a break during large climbs and as ^ post mentions, they are like twigs, literally. Single digit BF and massive hearts. Unless you train standing climbs a lot, best to stay seated unless your legs can’t take it (e.g., 2-3 mile, 8-10% grade; or 5-6% average with sections of 10% - think Hogpen Gap in N. Georgia) - HTFU! If your legs can’t take it - walk. Your knees and everything else probably can’t take it, either.Standing isn’t less efficient than sitting it’s just that generally people put out more power when standing so they get tired faster.
Level ground and uphill cycling efficiency in seated and standing positions.
CONCLUSION:
Gradient or body position appears to have a negligible effect on external efficiency in field-based high-intensity cycling exercise. Greater short-term power can be produced in standing position, presumably due to a greater force developed per revolution. However, the technical features of the standing position may be one of the most determining factors affecting the metabolic responses.
This, an old wives tale for sure. Although it is different for every athlete.
Maurice
Obviously standing while climbing is a requirement during mountain passes such as the Gavia and Stelvio as well as most days during the Giro .
How do they manage to stay out of the saddle for such extended periods of time ?
Is there specific drills to practice this for normal wanna be cyclists .
Will they improve our alround riding skills and are they a necessary component of being a better cyclist.
Standing out of the saddle is horribly inefficient and spikes your HR. Most people think it’s a good idea, but it’s not. Pro cyclists do it to give their main mover muscles a break during large climbs and as ^ post mentions, they are like twigs, literally. Single digit BF and massive hearts. Unless you train standing climbs a lot, best to stay seated unless your legs can’t take it (e.g., 2-3 mile, 8-10% grade; or 5-6% average with sections of 10% - think Hogpen Gap in N. Georgia) - HTFU! If your legs can’t take it - walk. Your knees and everything else probably can’t take it, either.Standing isn’t less efficient than sitting it’s just that generally people put out more power when standing so they get tired faster.
Level ground and uphill cycling efficiency in seated and standing positions.
CONCLUSION:
Gradient or body position appears to have a negligible effect on external efficiency in field-based high-intensity cycling exercise. Greater short-term power can be produced in standing position, presumably due to a greater force developed per revolution. However, the technical features of the standing position may be one of the most determining factors affecting the metabolic responses.
This, an old wives tale for sure. Although it is different for every athlete.
Triathletes are always told that standing is inefficient, that it will burn all your matches and ruin your run. That’s true if you never practice standing and climbing smoothly. It takes practice and you have to train your muscles and ‘‘dance on the pedals’’. The current trend is to compact cranks and bigger and bigger cogs on the rear. Gearing down more and more until if you hit a pebble in the road, it will stop you in your tracks. Want to learn how to climb out of the saddle? Get a singlespeed and hit the hills. It will teach you how to climb efficiently or you will go home.
I always break it up sitting sometimes and standing others. I find that it takes the pressure off of my lower back. There are also climbs that nobody is getting up seated for the whole time, like the Devil’s Kitchen climb in NY state. It stair steps up averaging over 10 % and going to 20% for almost 3 miles. You have to be good at standing efficiently if you are going to make that climb.
Just like the old joke about how to get the Carnegie Hall, it takes practice, practice, practice!
Only a sissy would have to stand on Hogpen Gap :0
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Learning when and not to get out of the saddle is part of being a good cyclist.
It wasn’t until I became a roadie that I learned the “sit and spin” mentality was limiting me as a triathlon cyclist.
Do tons of shorter (under 2 min) hills of varying grades at different gearing and intensity. You’ll start to figure things out.
I did a bunch of standing drills this winter on the trainer as part of training plan I was doing. One thing I learned is there is more to pedaling standing than just getting your butt off the saddle. The drills had a lot of work on various cadences and positioning (ie how straight you stand and how much weight you put on your hands). The high cadence drills where the hardest as I had a serious “knock” in my stroke. Over time I smoothed that out. It was also helpful to work on various fore/aft positioning to find my sweet spot I still don’t stand much but when I do, I am now better at it.
So, if you intend on ever pedaling while standing, there is some benefit to practicing it.
I find standing also overlaps running muscles more. I’m not sure if that actually true, but it feels that way.
Mostly, its’ less aerodynamic and as mentioned you often use a lot more power than you might want. I stand up only on steep hills for short periods just to stretch out a little. I’m careful to keep the gearing tall enough to limit my power and just use my weight only to set the force on the pedals. I keep a close eye on my power number to verify.
On rolling hills, I will sometimes stand up but stay aero. Its’ a little tricky, but a it stretches the legs out and gives my sit bones a short break from that position. I again, choose a gear tall enough to limit my power.
Climbs I’m doing are usually 30-90 minutes. Big ass long canyons with 3,500 feet gain. No standing at all is a sure way to piss off my lower back. I use standing to engage different muscles and stretch out so I can be even MORE efficient when seated. And I’m an efficient enough with my pedal stroke to prevent big power spikes when standing as well. Key is practice. But some standing is good.
Climbs I’m doing are usually 30-90 minutes. Big ass long canyons with 3,500 feet gain. No standing at all is a sure way to piss off my lower back. I use standing to engage different muscles and stretch out so I can be even MORE efficient when seated. And I’m an efficient enough with my pedal stroke to prevent big power spikes when standing as well. Key is practice. But some standing is good.
If I did my math right, that only maybe a 3-5% grade. You could be riding that in the aero position since you should be above 15mph with a descent p/w ratio. That’s not any different than a strong headwind. Why would that hurt your back? Why are you running such a low cadence that you need to work your core that hard?
Sometimes I think people overthink hills. your simply going slower at the same power output, nothing else. The only change is less rotational inertia, flywheel effect if you will, just like riding on a trainer.
Have you ever done Eagleman? It’s flat as a pancake with one tiny bridge with a small rise. All three times I did Eagleman, I jumped up for about 10 pedal strokes for that little hill, just to change position. It’s good to give your body a break,.
I doubt that the above poster is going up a constant 3-5% hill. I probably rolls, steeper and slacker. I would do the same thing he does, standing at times and getting back down, Even if it turned out to be slower I’d most likely feel better at the top of the climb.
Congrats on the simple math you’ve done. Regarding the low back, if you must know, I have bulging discs at L5-S1 and L4-L5 along with intermittent facet joint syndrome. Climbing for any duration for longer than about 20 minutes is best broken up by some standing for 20-30 pedal strokes. It helps give my low back a short break and enables me to climb stuff that’s 90-100 minutes long. Plus, it was recommended to me by Max Testa who is my fitter and MD. If it’s good enough for Levi, it’s probably good for others. As the other person stated above, these climbs are variable grade with some 8-12% steeper sections in there. Does this help?
^^ what he said. Not sure where you get your math from. But, for example one HC rated climb I do is 7.4 miles and averages 7.5% grade. The degree depends on the mileage not the distance, and climbing that HC ride I just described is about a 90 minute climb for the average rider, and 60 minutes for pros. What this means in reality is that there’s some flat sections, with a number of 10-15% climbs. Leg muscles also can have a lot to do with back issues, especially the lower back (this is coming from someone with compressed discs at L4-L5)…particularly hamstrings. And if you do much climbing you would know that all your strength comes from the hamstrings, so standing to ride puts the quads to work giving them a rest, as well as stretching that lower back out and taking weight off it. Just a couple minutes of this is good cause otherwise you have to stop the ride, stand up and stretch, etc.