Actually I think this is a confession thread.
She is a he and the he is homie.
Homie is fat.
Homie thinks he is fast.
Homie enters a race and sucks big time.
Homie is pissed because he used to be much faster.
Homie confesses.
We expect more from Homie…
I take what a person does at face value: no padding of mileage or embellishment of intensity.
Well when the results don’t match the “Face value” you either have a serious problem or a liar…embellisher 
**Back to my point: Tough Love or Finesse and Diplomacy? **
Why not honesty?
If they are a close friend then you should be concerned that they may actually have something more serious going on because the input clearly does not match the output. One BAD race is understandable, rarely will you see a series of BAD races and it would take a BAD race to be off by 2 hours from what should be a relatively easy task in a half.
So what you have is either a liar or someone with some serious medical conditions…or least likely a very serious genetic outlier.
I’m not a big proponent of “Tough love”. What you’ll get is either more lies or a simple “F’off” and no longer a friend. I’d either stay out of it entirely or start asking questions like “Have you seen a doctor for a checkup lately?” etc, etc. After doing that “Are you sure your training paces, mileage etc is correct? Maybe something off with them?”
If you’re close enough that you’d want to do a workout with them, do that, then you’ll really know what they are capable of.
In the end it’s really up to them and this is really all about a game. No point in losing a friend over it. Don’t lie, be honest and don’t be an ass. Simple
~Matt
Tell her to take up golf.
Why not honesty?
I think Matt has hit the nail on the head here…you’d be honest with us, wouldn’t you.
I know, without knowing you and Matt at all really, that both of you would flat out tell me I was full 'o shit if I talked big story and turned in an equivalent HIM time. We’d do the same across the board.
My best friend and wife would also. In fact, they wouldn’t allow it to get that far…the “shit talking” would have been halted long before the crappy race.
The clock at the end of the pool doesn’t lie. Riding constantly at 85% effort in a 39x20 should tell you something and the one hour 6 mile training runs which leave you feeling as though you’ve done something do also.
Its nice to FEEL good about yourself, its a lie if you insist you’re something you aren’t.
Kind of like The Lorax insisting he’s not a commie…
I have a friend who talks the big triathlon talk: lots of talk about epic rides, long runs, bone-chilling open water swims…overcoming adversity on all of these cruel self-imposed work outs…
My friend has a coach, a super-mega-deluxe tri bike, with similar wheelset and a power-meter. My friend looks like a hardcore triathlete and with the training talk, gear, coaching, etc you would think she is a sub 5 1/2 IM Chick. Not even close. Recently, she finished a 1/2 IM in just under 8 hours on a relatively flat course. This is not unusual for her: Big talk + Race = make excuses. Her last race was not just a bad day…
So here’s the deal: I really care about my friend and I think she has the potential to be fast…way faster than she is right now. But she is doing everything wrong, not the least of which is overtraining. What should I say to her or should I say nothing at all?
I am inclined to say: 'Listen dude, your last race sucked because your training sucks and you have no idea WTF you are doing." This tough love approach is my style. Let all of her other friends tell her how “awesome” she is…not me, because that’s bullshit. She is not awesome. She sucks. And I feel that all the pandering from her friends is counter-productive as it sets her into the same condition to repeat previous mistakes.
How should I talk to this person: tough Love, finesse and diplomacy or let it go?
My wife ran the Country Music Marathon in 2:15 or something and was very disappointed because she wanted to break two hours. I continue to allow her to train as she wants to train but one day she came to ask me for help. I sat her down and asked her many miles she ran this week, she had no idea. I then asked to see her training log (which I knew she didn’t have) and again she said she didn’t have one. I sat there, thought for a while and asked her how she expected to get better when she didn’t have history of what was done in the past. I then told her a story about what was successful for me. For me to be successful I need two things, intensity and rest. I asked her how often she went for a speed workout or tempo run, the answer was never. I then asked her how she expected her legs to turn at x:xx pace if she never runs at x:xx. After that, she got it. She has gone from running 10 minute miles to 8:30 miles just by pushing herself and adding a little intensity. She still doesn’t have a training log but she understands that in order to be successful she has to sweat a little…
I think the point of this story is to talk to her about her training and tell her a story about how you have been successful. Such as; Wow, that is a lot of biking, does it hurt your legs to have a killer bike workout two days in a row? I remember a time when I used to do that, everything was balls to the walls, 110% intensity. Just by chance I took a few days off, my next bike ride was amazing, I was refreshed, focused and my legs turned smoother than ever, I think that extra bit of rest gave my body a little rest and then my hard training paid off.
You will never be able to dictate someone’s training but you can surely persuade them.
Sounds like to me her COACH sucks and should be telling her she is overtraining. Is she doing more then her coach is giving her ? Maybe tell her Man you have the potential to be awesome but I think you are running yourself into the ground then tell her why. You know suger coat while not being sarcastic. Maybe explain to her what a good coach is and does. Maybe start a “What do you look for in a good coach” thread and show her the replies.
My wife ran the Country Music Marathon in 2:15…
Dang, iffn 'Lil Audrey ran that fast, I’d be at the poolside eating shrimp cocktail and she’d be on the cover of Runner’s World pimping footgear for millions a year.
My wife ran the Country Music Marathon in 2:15…
Dang, iffn 'Lil Audrey ran that fast, I’d be at the poolside eating shrimp cocktail and she’d be on the cover of Runner’s World pimping footgear for millions a year.
LOL- Sorry- Forgot an important word in that sentence- HALF
: )
.
OK, after some thought I am going to change my suggestion.
I would ask her to join ST and provide a summary of her training and racing on the main forum. She will be so shell shocked that you can then follow my original suggestion and ask her to take up golf.
You’re welcome.
Yes, I am serious. I think my friend is serious too as she aspires to be a top of the food chain, alpha female triathlete.
Check out this link from ChuckieV’s blog: “The Art of War - Triathlon Style” in the comments he deals with “Anon” about competing for “fun.”
http://chuckiev.blogspot.com/2010/03/art-of-war-triathlon-style.html
I do not disagree that there are people who compete just to finish, but I also think at their next race, these same people would like to go faster. I know my friend would like to go faster and I now what she is doing currently is not working. Since I was not sure how to approach her I started this thread and I appreciate your comments and those of others.
Do you train with her at all? Maybe you could offer some tips based on what you see, as a casual way to get her more efficient. You could say ‘Hey, I noticed when you’re riding that you do _________; you might find it more effective to do _______ instead.’ (bike fit, form on the bike, use of gears, how she attacks hills, running form, etc)
I have done that with friends.
(Based on this thread, I actually bugged the girl I mentioned earlier who overtrains and is slow. She posted her Garmin Connect run on Facebook last night, and noted that the doctor had told her not to run due to an injured hamstrong but she ran anyways, and that the pace/pain got worse as the run went on. So I gave her sh*t for running when she’s been told not to, and reminded her that a 6k run at a 7:10-7:20km/h pace isn’t going to make or break her fitness and isn’t worth worsening an injury. Normally I would’ve just shaken my head and ignored it.)
Back to my point: Tough Love or Finesse and Diplomacy
AS someone who has had these conversations numerous times at points it’s not a do you go with this or do you go with that choice. I’d choose D, all of the above.
You can be diplomatic, direct, tough, nurturing and finesse your way through the conversation so the other party doesn’t shut down or shut you out. You might also want to have plan E in place where you at some point agree to shelve the conversation, go take a walk around the block to let her digest it, then pick it back up.
Lots of people think tough love is tough and they forget the love part or they give too much love and never get touch. You can never go wrong finessing tough or love. Finesse is like finding out your cake has a double layer of frosting, makes it so much easier to eat no matter how bad the cake really sucks.
Wow… I agree with you.
Does she truly over-train, or does she do the classic “super-slow, plodding, no power” long training that leads to … super-slow, plodding results? She could ditch the coach and join a decent team (that would be a wake-up call), or she could join some casual cyclists on a hilly ride! On the other hand, she may simply be slow. I know folks who are in very good shape, and some run 8-minute miles, while others run 11 minute miles.
I have trained with her once. We did a 60 mile ride on a flat course with lots of wind. I am pretty fast on the bike…on flat roads:-)…but she hung the entire way. Granted, she was drafting most of the time but still…I was impressed. She said that ride killed her and I think she hung tough because she has a huge amount of pride and is pretty good on the bike. I think she has the mental gear and physical potential to be fast(er). It frustrates me to see her race poorly because deep down insiide I know she is unhappy with her results. I’d like the outcome to be like trackie clm experienced with her friend = a wake up call. I mentioned my friend has a huge amount of pride and if I say something the wrong way it is possible her pride will get in the way of her common sense = her thinking I am being a jerk and putting her down when the opposite is true. Anyway, really great advice from everyone. I appreciate it!!
Tell her to fire Desert Dude and hire Paulo…
You can be diplomatic, direct, tough, nurturing and finesse your way through the conversation so the other party doesn’t shut down or shut you out. You might also want to have plan E in place where you at some point agree to shelve the conversation, go take a walk around the block to let her digest it, then pick it back up.
Exactly. If you push so hard the person tells you to screw off you’re not doing the other person or yourself any good. How hard you push, what words you use etc etc are almost entirely specific to the situation, person, conditions etc. Going in with the mindset of “I’m going to do this” disregards the likely hood that the other person isn’t on the same page.
~Matt
In my experience, that is a lesson people have to come to all on their own. You can tell them until you are blue in the face…but they need to learn it and believe it for themselves.
The clock at the end of the pool doesn’t lie. Riding constantly at 85% effort in a 39x20 should tell you something and the one hour 6 mile training runs which leave you feeling as though you’ve done something do also.
For the most part I’ve never seen anyone who’s race results don’t relatively closely match their workout results. Yes some people are better “Races” can push themselves harder and don’t “Break” during a race. But that’s the difference between a 3:00 Mary and a 3:15-3:30 Mary, not a 3:00 vs 5:00 mary.
If a person can do “X” in training they will be able to do “X”+/- a small percentage during a race.
That being said how you approach a person who claims they are training “X” and racing “X” + a HUGE percentage will vary from person to person. Clearly being honest is the best way. However as DessertDude point out it takes a little “Finesse” to know how to be honest with each person.
Some of us clearly do better with “Dude, no way you did the training you said you did” while others need to be led into understanding that that their training is not up to par a little more gently
~Matt
Ha!! As I mentioned earlier about ‘deconstructing her training’ and getting her on the right path, the very first thing I would do is send her to Tucson so Desert Dude can teach her to swim. With a 65 minute 1.2, there is certainly room for improvement. And, DD is just the coach to make it happen. I think she would be astonished with what she could learn.
This leads me to another point: When an athlete is poor to mediocre and is sincere about improving…I think whatever they have been tought before…whatever they think they know: They need to forget it. Essentially, be open to a new way of learning. A ‘free your mind and your ass will follow’ kind of thing. To be the old dog that actually can learn new tricks.