I have a friend who talks the big triathlon talk: lots of talk about epic rides, long runs, bone-chilling open water swims…overcoming adversity on all of these cruel self-imposed work outs…
My friend has a coach, a super-mega-deluxe tri bike, with similar wheelset and a power-meter. My friend looks like a hardcore triathlete and with the training talk, gear, coaching, etc you would think she is a sub 5 1/2 IM Chick. Not even close. Recently, she finished a 1/2 IM in just under 8 hours on a relatively flat course. This is not unusual for her: Big talk + Race = make excuses. Her last race was not just a bad day…
So here’s the deal: I really care about my friend and I think she has the potential to be fast…way faster than she is right now. But she is doing everything wrong, not the least of which is overtraining. What should I say to her or should I say nothing at all?
I am inclined to say: 'Listen dude, your last race sucked because your training sucks and you have no idea WTF you are doing." This tough love approach is my style. Let all of her other friends tell her how “awesome” she is…not me, because that’s bullshit. She is not awesome. She sucks. And I feel that all the pandering from her friends is counter-productive as it sets her into the same condition to repeat previous mistakes.
How should I talk to this person: tough Love, finesse and diplomacy or let it go?
ask her how she FEELS she is doing - is she getting faster under this coach’s guidance? is what she’s doing working? then maybe you can introduce the idea for change.
if everyone else around her is complimenting her, then tough love might be a good thing.
Unless she’s asked you why you think she sucks, I’d leave it alone. Don’t blow roses and sunshine up her ass, but don’t tell her why she’ll won’t get any faster, either. If she wants your opinion, she’ll ask for it.
It sounds to me like she just chooses to surround herself with Oprah-watching TNT women who cry and hug each other for 20 minutes at the finish line. Try to get her to hang out with triathletes of a more old school triathlon mindset, and they won’t enable her mediocrity as much.
I am inclined to say: 'Listen dude, your last race sucked because your training sucks and you have no idea WTF you are doing."
I wouldn’t go quite so far. I’d just wait until she brings up the subject of her own performance. Then ask her, “Are you really serious about this? Do you really want to see what you can do?” If she says, “Yes,” then you tell her, “Then get a coach. Otherwise you’re just kidding yourself.”
Your quote actually crosses the line into you becoming her unsolicited coach. And it’s dangerous to mix coaching and friendship, particularly if you haven’t yet defined what is “coaching time” and “friend time.” Someone who mixes those two is a bad coach and an annoying friend.
But you’re dead on about tough love. The most important thing a coach can ever do for an athlete is provide the cold, hard truth in unambiguous terms. The rest - physiology, planning, etc, - is all just gravy.
I can undesrstand why you would think this, but aside from my concern over her developing into a better athlete, there is nothng else. I am not a coach, but I do know a little bit about long course tri. There’s no coaching angle, no romantic interest. Only the interest of seeing someone excel in the sport I love.
I think you leave it. If she asks your opinion or recommendations, give them to her, but otherwise, I’d leave it.
I know a girl in a similar situation, though she (like me) could lose a lot of weight. But she overtrains, has horrible results for the training she does (though I can’t speak to her swimming, which I think is quite good), and has people cheering her on and telling her how amazing she is. Averaging 21k/hr over a hilly route isn’t actually amazing, especially when you’ve been doing this for awhile. But she seems happy and is really into tris, so if it works for her - good for her. (Though, the inaccuracies in her Garmin Connect files drives me nuts - she’ll write about how a climb on a ride was worth it because she got to do 65k/hr on the downhill. Then you look at her file and her maximum speed was 56k/hr…that, and she’ll inaccurately distance her rides - again, it’s right there in the file, we know how far you actually went regardless of what distance you put in the title of the file.)
We have another friend who has similar Garmin Connect issues…no, a 46.5k ride is NOT a ‘50k’ ride. He’s new to tris, loves training, but - last ride we did together he did 2/3s the distance I did, was slower than me, and that’s with drafting with some triathletes we met for half his ride (I rode with them for about 2k before I got bored and left). He gets back and talks about how he kept on getting boxed in by the group he was riding with and that’s why he wasn’t faster. Apparently, he got boxed in by 4 guys (and then 3 guys, as one turned onto a different route) for 30k. YEAH right. I saw him coming in to where our cars were with the guys he was riding with and he wasn’t boxed in. But, if it makes him feel better to say so, then he can. No skin off my back however amusing I find it.
A bit of a digression, but - personally, if people want to use excuses - let them. If they come to you for honest feedback, then give it. The only person I’d call on that sort of thing is my bf, and I’d expect him to call me out too if I was doing it. Or a really close best friend.
**It sounds to me like she just chooses to surround herself with Oprah-watching TNT women who cry and hug each other for 20 minutes at the finish line. Try to get her to hang out with triathletes of a more old school triathlon mindset, and they won’t enable her mediocrity as much. **
That ‘enabling of mediocrity’ phrase is quite poetic and profound. May I Hi-Jack your words?
I like you thoughts. I like Tigerchicks and Khai’s thoughts as well.
I do not prefer to over-analyze this situation, but I am looking for answers.
My friend is racing IMAZ in November. She has finished one IM in just a shade under 17 hours. I think she is doing everything wrong and as her friend it is my desire to see her do better at IMAZ. I think if she continues on her current path, not just in training, but in receiving the Patronizingly False Virtual High Fives (PFVHF) = “Awesome” it is a recipe for mediocrity.
Basically, I would like to deconstruct her entire training program and put her on the right path. She swam a 1.2 in over 65 minutes and then her entire race fell apart.
Been there, in your friend’s shoes. And my (male, platonic) friend gave me “the talk”. In fact, his email subject was, “be prepared, this is not a soft reply.” I wasn’t happy at the time, but I knew that every single thing he said was true and I ended up hiring a cycling coach and improved a lot last year. And my friend and I are still good friends.
“Are you really serious about this? Do you really want to see what you can do?” If she says, “Yes,” then you tell her, “Then get a coach. Otherwise you’re just kidding yourself.”
I’m confused, from the OP.
My friend has a coach,
I read the OP and the only thing I was thinking was that “The friend” is simply lying. If the friend actually does any semblance of the workouts she claims to do, HAS a coach AND has all this uber gear a 6hr 1/2 should be a walk in the park.
Now I may be misreading the OP, but if indeed the above is true then I see no other possible option, other than maybe being a serious genetic outlier, that the person is consistently doing so badly other than they are not telling the truth about the training and the coach.
An 8 hour 1/2 is an hour swim, 4 hour bike (14 MPH) and a 3 hour 1/2 mary (~14min/mi). Not that there is anything wrong with that, better than I could do right now :-), but that’s light years away from any serious training.
Oh damn, I don’t know how I missed that. Fire the coach.
I tend to agree though. Overtraining may set you back 20-30 minutes. It doesn’t set you back 2-3 hours unless it’s progressed to actual injury or illness.
Agree with QRGirl on this one. Do you know for a fact that she’s unhappy with her race results? I know this will give the big boys on the main forum nightmares, but not everyone who races cares about their time. Maybe she does, maybe she doesn’t - but you need to know if she does before you offer unsolicited advice.
The purpose of racing is to go fast and to terminate the person in front of you. Your use of the word “only” and “race” in the same sentence is deeply troubling to me.
If she’s already got the coach and is into the whole tri scene and is still doing it all wrong, then a few subtle hints from you isn’t going to get her to see the light. You need to tell her straight up that you thinkshes training poorly and could perform a lot better.
The purpose of racing is to go fast and to terminate the person in front of you. Your use of the word “only” and “race” in the same sentence is deeply troubling to me.
Oh my, are you serious?
There exists an entire population of people in this sport who’s only goal is to finish. That is it. They don’t care one iota about beating someone else.
I think your friend may not care about her times. If she does, help. If she doesn’t…then leave it alone.