So I bought some of this today after the stunning review of the stuff in LAVA. I’ve read a bit about OptygenHP on ST, but I am curious about dosage, side effects, and usage. I suspect I will follow the recommended dosage and use it daily for about 3 months. My triathlon season ends in November.
For those of you who use it, do you stop using it in the off season or do you continue it all year. After Clearwater, I am going to focus on swim training and the winter marathon season. I may run a couple open marys if my wife allows it. Should I stop Optygen for the winter – do the effects continue if taken into perpetuity or will the body build up a tolerance?
Also, any one notice any side effects? I want to get faster, but I don’t want my hair to fall out, my testicles to shrink, or my heart to stop beating.
Can’t comment on Opty yet, as I just ordered some as well. As far as “I don’t want my hair to fall out, my testicles to shrink, or my heart to stop beating” I wouldn’t worry. Only the serious (illegal) gear gives you the worst side effects. Opty is going to be no worse on your jewels than smashing them on that seat for several hours at a time!
I would say your probably wasting your money… If it really really worked as claimed it would be illegal. You may find a placebo effect and that’s all well and good because placebo can do some amazing things. And if it does work even just a little I would equate it to maybe aero tubing compare to round tubes, not really all that much faster but a wee bit ; )
It’s your money, i guess find out for yourself and tell us about it.
So I bought some of this today after the stunning review of the stuff in LAVA. I’ve read a bit about OptygenHP on ST, but I am curious about dosage, side effects, and usage. I suspect I will follow the recommended dosage and use it daily for about 3 months. My triathlon season ends in November.
For those of you who use it, do you stop using it in the off season or do you continue it all year. After Clearwater, I am going to focus on swim training and the winter marathon season. I may run a couple open marys if my wife allows it. Should I stop Optygen for the winter – do the effects continue if taken into perpetuity or will the body build up a tolerance?
Also, any one notice any side effects? I want to get faster, but I don’t want my hair to fall out, my testicles to shrink, or my heart to stop beating.
Thanks.
I tried Optygen shortly after it came out. I train with a power meter. It doesn’t work, at least for me it didn’t.
From the gist that I get, it doesn’t directly make you any faster. It helps increase the rate of recovery between workouts and, correct me if I’m wrong, decreases the level of cortisol in the blood faster post-workout. I’m sure Rappstar will chime in soon with the actual science behind the product. I know he has used it for quite some time (even before he partnered with the company).
The two actual ingredients that matter are:
Cordyceps sinesis
Rhodiola rosacea
That’s basically what Optygen is. Optygen HP has “stronger” doses than regular Optygen. And it adds Beta Alinine, the science of which is certainly open for debate - as is the science on a lot of things - but I’m happy to talk about what those who support Beta Alinine argue that it does and what studies they believe support it.
But primarily, it’s the two ingredients above that formed the core of Optygen, which was FirstEndurance’s first product. As with a lot of things, they don’t work on everyone. That should be normal. Different people metabolize things differently. That’s why there’s a 30-day money back guarantee. If it doesn’t work for you - or you don’t think it worked for you - you get your money back. No questions asked.
As far as how both cordyceps and rhodiola work, they seem to impact your body’s cortisol response. There’s a lot of good information on both sides of the fence. I would say if you are inclined to believe it, you’ll find information to support that position. And if you are inclined not to believe it, you can find information to support that position as well.
Of course, since there is little to no money to be made by pharmaceutical companies, there’s not a lot of research done here in the US on either ingredient. In both cases, there’s a lot of research if you look on pubmed from other sources, with all of the caveats that comes with.
I’ve had this debate enough that I’m tired of trying to convince people it will work when they are already convinced that it won’t. But I think there’s enough support to give it a try. Be objective - use a PM, a treadmill, etc. to evaluate it’s impact. If it doesn’t help, return it. But I think that you’ll notice a positive impact. I know I did.
iI have used it for 2 months now, I noticed a difference in recovery for sure. Nothing like epo or anything. I think it helps, people that say its snake oil had hoped it produced results like being on the sauce.
Thanks - I read the other posts debating efficacy. I am convinced that it’s worth a try.
What I am really curious about is long term usage.
Have you used it consistently for years, or do you use it for 3 months and then stop for a couple months before starting again?
I had used it basically continuously starting in late 2008. But after discussions with my naturopath - who is very well researched on supplements - she said that it might be better to try cycling off of it for periods once or twice per year (for a period of about 2weeks or so) and even “microcycling” it as part of my “normal” routine. Her suggestion was that I try taking it M-F and then skipping S & S. So I will try that, especially now that I can be more objective about evaluating it since I am actually back to training with greater regularity. But I haven’t yet tried that. Keep in mind that when it is effective, it is affecting your hormones. Cortisol is a hormone. I know of people who have had no effect from it. I know of people who perceived a positive effect from it. And I know of one - but only one - person who had what they perceived as a negative effect (higher HR and trouble sleeping). It has an effect on your body, and anytime you start using something that affects your body, I think you are wise to be cautious.
As far as what objective measures I’d use for evaluation, take your morning RHR in a consistent and repeatable way for about two weeks BEFORE you start with optygen. Repeat that “test” during your evaluation of optygen. Ideally, you should be on a similar training schedule. As a pro, where you have less “alternative” stresses in your life, this is more reliable than it is for a lot of age group athletes. But it’s still something that I think you can use. I take mine first thing in the AM, right when I wake up (i have one that reads off your finger).
The other “test” that I did was correlating HR/speed/RPE on a consistent treadmill set that I did very regularly. I would look at avg HR during an interval and then how my HR dropped during recovery as well as RPE - which is a surprisingly (or not so surprisingly) good indicator of load - during the set. I ran basically the same exact time, and I eat basically the same exact breakfast, and I used the same treadmill in the same gym. Of course, the difficulty is in parsing out your own “fitness” gains - though I increased speed over the period of weeks that i did the test, so I attempted to use that to account for changes in fitness. My own findings were that my RHR was about 3bpm lower when taking optygen and that I saw a “greater” drop in HR during the recovery time between intervals. I don’t have any hard numbers to share because that was close to 2 years ago, and I didn’t have download capabilities on the HRM I was using, and even beyond that, I wouldn’t actually expect that data to stand up substantively as any sort of authoritative test as it was certainly n=1, fraught with error, etc. But i also did have enough confidence in what I knew was typical consisntency and performance for myself to come away feeling confident that Optygen has a positive impact on me.
My advice to most people is that admittedly, Optygen is expensive. Really expensive. It’s benefit is in helping your body manage stress - your body interprets stress as stress, whether it is emotional or physiological, but of course the response to physiological stress is also to “get fitter.” So I would say take it during those times when stress is greatest - whether it be a period when you are struggling to balance your training because of a lot of work or when you are struggling to balance your training because of a lot of training. Be objective. Let’s say you are building up for an Ironman. Take it during your preparation, and for a week or two after the race when residual stress is quite high from the race. Then stop. I think that’s a perfectly reasonable plan. Put most simply - it is designed to help your improve the quality of your recovery from stresses on your body which should help your training which should help your racing. So use that as your guide.
It looks like its much cheaper to buy the key ingredients (Cordyceps Sinensis and Rhodiaola) as separate capsusles from somewhere like Vitacost. Have you considered that? Or are you sponsopred by FE?
Another food that has been mentioned is studies as having a beneficial effect on endurance performance is beetroot juice. Have you tried that? I see you can get beetroot capsules for next to nothing on Vitacost.
Despite being intrigued by the effect natural foods have on performance, I was rather put off by watching how ‘supplements’ were cobbled together by literally some bums off the street in the film “Bigger, Faster, Stronger” - a hilarious but informative and disturbing film about body building and associated supplements.
It looks like its much cheaper to buy the key ingredients (Cordyceps Sinensis and Rhodiaola) as separate capsusles from somewhere like Vitacost. Have you considered that? Or are you sponsopred by FE?
Another food that has been mentioned is studies as having a beneficial effect on endurance performance is beetroot juice. Have you tried that? I see you can get beetroot capsules for next to nothing on Vitacost.
Despite being intrigued by the effect natural foods have on performance, I was rather put off by watching how ‘supplements’ were cobbled together by literally some bums off the street in the film “Bigger, Faster, Stronger” - a hilarious but informative and disturbing film about body building and associated supplements.
Cheers.
I am sponsored by FE, but the problem with your approach is that you have little no guarantee of quality when you buy somewhere like Vitacost. What you are paying for - largely - with FE is the cost of ingredients and manufacturing. But, by all means, test it out. Buy the ingredients from Vitacost and compare it to Optygen. Are the Vitacost products made according to GMP? Do you get certificate of analysis (essentially proof that you are actually getting what you pay for)? I doubt it.
Regarding “BFS” (great movie, BTW), I can assure that is NOT how FirstEndurance operates. They have a research board of MDs and PhDs who helps guide the existing products and future products. FirstEndurance is also relatively unique in that they own their own formulations. In most cases, when you see those cobbled together/rebadged supplements that are way too prevalent, the formula is owned by a lab that will lease out and relabel it to anyone who wants it. That’s not the case with FE.
Our only two cents to add is that we’ve sold thousands of bottles of the “flagship” optygen and both versions of the HP combined in the last 5 years. We’ve had one customer return an empty bottle. That may or may not say much about the performance guarantee. Me personally if I’m ponied up $75 bones on a product I felt didn’t work I’m taking the them up on the refund. We even took it a step further and offer customers 105%. Still… only a single return.
Are the recommended dosages the maximum effective dose or do you find additional benefits with increased dosages? If so, what has been your experience in this regard?
The two actual ingredients that matter are:
Cordyceps sinesis
Rhodiola rosacea
Both of which are listed as Group C supplements by the AIS (little proof of beneficial effect and not provided to AIS official programs): http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition/supplements/classifications#C
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Are the recommended dosages the maximum effective dose or do you find additional benefits with increased dosages? If so, what has been your experience in this regard?
Thanks.
I have never tried larger doses. Michael Lovato, who is also a FE sponsored athlete, takes more (I believe 6 OpHP) in the two weeks (IIRC) leading up to a race and thinks that it is beneficial, but that is strictly second hand information.
The two actual ingredients that matter are:
Cordyceps sinesis
Rhodiola rosacea
Both of which are listed as Group C supplements by the AIS (little proof of beneficial effect and not provided to AIS official programs): http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition/supplements/classifications#C
Alex, do you know if they run their own studies to classify or if they just base it off analysis of the available literature?
Either way, as I said, there’s ammunition on both sides. If people want to try, I’d encourage them to actually come up with an effective metric(s) to see if the perceive a difference. If not, then return it and get your money back.
Just keep in mind that an absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence. Unfortunately, I haven’t seen a really good study on either side that measured what I think would be really relevant markers for whether or not it “works.” But as with Noakes “research” on sodium supplementation, there’s what the science says should be the case and what athletes in the field actually find is the case. I know far too many objective athletes that will attest that they have seen positive effects.
