Hi, all!
I’ve got an upcoming cycling race on Saturday – 206 miles. I hope to finish in 9.5 hours or less (much depends on prevailing winds). The course has roughly 10k of climbing and 7k of descending. Most of the climbing comes during the first 100 miles, with 3 climbs (~3.5k, ~2k and ~1k); the rest of the course is rolling terrain that trends upwards.
I train on Zipp 404 carbon clinchers (yeah, tough enough for every day, going on 2 years) mostly with Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX tires and most recently with the Open Corsa Evo SC.
For cycling races, I tend to ride a 404 FC tubular front with an 808 FC tubular rear (road races), and an 808 FC tubular front + disc (time trials).
So here’s what I’m looking for an opinion on:
Should I race the 404 + 808 combo, or should I go 808 all the way (all tubular)?
Additional info:
The 404 front has a Vittoria Corsa Evo CX (23mm) mounted.
The 808 rear has a Vittorai Corsa Evo SC (23mm).
The 808 front has a Zipp Tangente (21mm).
The Vittorias have a puncture resistant belt on them, and I believe the Zipp tire does as well (it is made by Vittoria). I have had good luck with Vittoria Corsas (and Open Corsas) in terms of puncture resistance – generally only getting flats when the tire is well worn and needs to be replaced. Admittedly, they are not the longest wearing tires, but that’s a separate point. All tires above are in good shape.
I’m leaning toward the 404+808 combo due to the tires, handling, and slightly lighter weight. That said, this is a ride where I could have my nose in the wind more and the aero benefit of the 808 up front could help. I will tend to be either in a single paceline, a small group, or riding solo, so there will not be hiding from crosswinds in a large peloton.
I would agree with the 404 + 808 combo. I think the gains from a 808 would be negated by the pack. Would rather have those tires for 206. Comfort for that distance. …Side note. Just mouned a pair of new SL’s with latex. How do you like yours? Same as the CX…Just found out I will be on recent chip seal for most of my 56 Saturday, the sl’s holding up well (in context)?..I’ll probably drop my pressure by 10
I would agree with the 404 + 808 combo. I think the gains from a 808 would be negated by the pack. Would rather have those tires for 206. Comfort for that distance. …Side note. Just mouned a pair of new SL’s with latex. How do you like yours? Same as the CX…Just found out I will be on recent chip seal for most of my 56 Saturday, the sl’s holding up well (in context)?..I’ll probably drop my pressure by 10
Thanks for the reply. Did you mean “SC’s with latex” above (not “SL’s with latex”)?
I am expecting that I’ll be in a break or possibly riding a long way solo, so the pack might come into play for the first 40 or so miles, but it is less a factor afterwards. Even so, it’s not as if the 404 front is a slouch in terms of aero, and the 606 combo is probably 1/3 of the way between 404 & 808 (guessing based on what i’ve read that the rear wheel is about only 1/3 the aero advantage of a wheelset).
I’ve only been riding on the SCs for about 2 weeks. They feel quite similar to the CX in terms of handling. In a totally unscientific test, they feel perhaps a tad faster than a comparable CX. They are said to handle better in the wet than the CX, but I haven’t ridden them in those conditions yet.
I tend to ride at about 105-108psi for 23mm tires. For the clinchers, I ride with butyl tubes, but the tubulars are latex.
There’s been some new chip seal I’ve had to roll through (the cheapest grade/largest diameter); I haven’t noticed any comfort difference with the SCs vs the CX – the ride on that stuff is rough no matter the tire. The Vittorias are probably better than most, and if it’s a substantial portion of your ride it is probably best to lower pressure. For me it was just a few mile stretch on a long ride.
The SCs seem to have LESS wear on the tread than a CX for the comparable distance.
I’ve had very good luck with the CXs long-term. I tend not to get flats on them, but when I finally DO get a flat, I have learned to toss the tire right away. For me, that’s the sign that more flats will come in the next 50-100 miles. I violated my own rule once this year, made it home and did not change the tire. Got away with another 60 mile ride, then on the next day during an FTP test I got 2 flats. D’oh!
Thanks, yeah meant SC. My half distance is a 14 mile loop x 4. Get an e-mail Monday that the course was just chip sealed…great. Thanks for the info. Hope you make a great break in your race good luck…Still think that unless your solo for the vast majority, the 404 + 808 is best. My 2 cents…Thanks again.Wheres your race at?
Thanks, yeah meant SC. My half distance is a 14 mile loop x 4. Get an e-mail Monday that the course was just chip sealed…great. Thanks for the info. Hope you make a great break in your race good luck…Still think that unless your solo for the vast majority, the 404 + 808 is best. My 2 cents…Thanks again.Wheres your race at?
thanks for your reply.
as for new chip seal, don’t give up all hope just yet. i live on the border of 2 states (idaho and wyoming). in idaho, it seems they lay down the lowest grade of chip seal – but they get repairs done fast. i came across a short new stretch of chip seal here in wyoming earlier today and it was still chip seal but was notably smoother. i will hope that yours is the latter.
what type of bike are you riding (frame material)? the reason i bring it up is that about 6 or 7 years ago, i was riding a stiff aluminum frame with carbon fork & seat stays. they chip sealed a favorite out-and-back ride (~30 miles), and within the span of a day it went from a favorite to unrideable for me. a few days later i demo’ed a carbon frame (specialized roubaix, so it was noted for good compliance in the right manner), and i wound up doing that ride twice! what a difference.
i’m hopeful for a great break, too. thanks for your wishes. my main hope is that there will be 4-5 other like-minded individuals, and that we can work together. of course, on a 206 mile route there is so much that could go wrong, but i can only think about what i can control.
this is the lotoja classic, by the way. starts in logan, utah, passes through idaho, and winds up in teton village (jackson hole), wyoming. longest sanctioned race in the US. there are true race categories, as well as fun classes. i highly recommend it.
I will have to put that on my list for next year. I am making my return to Tri this weekend after injury then illness. My swim is back.Before my IM swims were on 60 min flat. I am there. I’ve lost almost 60lbs since being off meds in March. Biking is back, but the run will be slow. My goal was to get to where I was able to train to be able to really train again by the end of summer. …My last long course was Silverman. So this is fun. Time does not matter after I start the run…I am not far from you, I live outside Billings. The half is Vikingman in Burley Idaho. …Longest bike I ever did was STP in 2005. Was not a race though
I am taking my carbon Lemond for the race. I also have a fat tube alum Klein, love that bike. For next year I will set that up as a tri bike. Looking to go long next year…You didn’t happen to come to Red Lodge for the Beartooth run and ride did you?. …If you live in Jackson hole, you happen to know Jenna Reinking?
I will have to put that on my list for next year. I am making my return to Tri this weekend after injury then illness. My swim is back.Before my IM swims were on 60 min flat. I am there. I’ve lost almost 60lbs since being off meds in March. Biking is back, but the run will be slow. My goal was to get to where I was able to train to be able to really train again by the end of summer. …My last long course was Silverman. So this is fun. Time does not matter after I start the run…I am not far from you, I live outside Billings. The half is Vikingman in Burley Idaho. …Longest bike I ever did was STP in 2005. Was not a race though
I am taking my carbon Lemond for the race. I also have a fat tube alum Klein, love that bike. For next year I will set that up as a tri bike. Looking to go long next year…You didn’t happen to come to Red Lodge for the Beartooth run and ride did you?. …If you live in Jackson hole, you happen to know Jenna Reinking?
yes, i’m in j-hole but no i don’t know your friend.
figured i’d pop back in and give an update. i wound up running the zipp 404/808 combo with corsa evo cx front and corsa evo sc rear tubies. wound up taking 12th place out of 1,000-1,500 riders. unfortunately for me, 7 of the top 12 were riders in my category, so not only did i not win my category, i didn’t even make a podium. d’oh!
