I posted here recently about muscle problems in the hip area and asked for Dr. recomendations in Houston. The local tri club forum had people suggesting a local chiro.
I know virtually nothing about the practice other than I hear of people who say it is wonderful, yet they have to go continually. I am looking for the solution to a problem, not another recurring problem. Is chiropractic treatment a viable alternative?
FWIW, I believe my problem is pain in the psoas caused by cycling. The pain goes away on the run.
Since it mainly happens on the bike did you check your bike fit?
Sometimes the hips can ache since most cyclists tend to bring their knees in close, which makes the soft tissues (ie. IT band) work in a more elongated position than the run. Sometimes stretching and/or strengthening the areas can help. This article may help, I just posted it on another thread as well: http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/coachcorn/strength.html
When my hips ache (normally on long runs) it’s usually beause I have neglected my strength. A few workouts including crab walk gets me right back. That’s me though.
About chiros - there are all different kinds. If you go to one then make sure he does more than adjust you. There is a reason why your body is in that position in order to be adjusted, if that is truly what you need. Soft tissues control the positioning of the hard ones (bones). If you do not treat the soft tissue, the adjustment will return to the original path. I prefer Drs & Pts that will refer you to a chiropractor if needed.
I’ve got a bike fit from John Cobb’s people and verified here on this forum. The Cobb fit put shims in my cleats and my knees (usually) track perfectly over the pedal spindles. I’ve been stretching quite a bit in the last 2 months to try and overcome this problem but it has not been getting any better. One idea I have had is to continue the stretching but add strength exercises.
Your symptoms sound very familiar. I went to ortho, massage, and finally chiro after resting and stretching on my own. I was fortunate to find a good chiro that understood the mechanics of what was going on. I went once a week for about 5 weeks. He did me a world of good. As it turns out the primary cause was the it band in the other leg. I still have some related aches and pains but nothing that I cant work out with specified stretches. The long and short is that not all chiros are good (as with any profession). Get some recommendations from others in your area.
Tom-If you are willing to travel to Austin (2hrs. 45min) there is a guy that has performed miracles on me in the past. He works exclusivly with athletes, does not take insurance and is difficult to get an appointment with, but he’s the best. Let me know if you need his contact info.
Bring on the flame throwers. Short story. I worked about 10 years ago with a wonderful, pretty and very fit 27 year old women at my moonlighting weekend job. She suffered from lower back pains and sought treatment from a chiro without seeing a real doctor first. The problem didn’t subside so she finally saw a doctor. The diagnosis was ovarian cancer and she was dead in 6 months. I realize that most of the posters on this forum are either chiros or see one regularly and I don’t mean to offend but I place chiros somewhere between witch doctors and faith healers. I would never consider seeing one unless a specialist or P.T. recommended it. Clearly many people feel that it works for them, I remain a sceptic.
now flame throwing here, but another story. My father had bad back pain for a few months, went to his DOCTOR and then to a SPECIALIST. They diagnosed his pain as some kind of hairline cracks in vertebrae. Long story short: turns out he had pancreatic cancer and was dead in 6 months.
my point is that i’m not sure in case you mentioned whether if she had gone to her regular doc, where the good doc spends 5 minutes on you and sends you on your way, would have made much difference. certain cancers like ovarian and pancreatic are very difficult to diagnose.
note: i have never been to a chiro, am not married to one and dont play one on tv.
I am very sorry to hear about your freind, that is a very sad and unfortunate story.
I am a chiropractor but don’t worry I will not be throwing any flames. I would just like to add that it is not fair to stigmatize an entire profession over this one incident. I do not know the details of this incident but if this D.C. was negligent in any way they should be held accountable.
No matter what type of physician she had gone to, a healthy, fit, 27 year old is an unlikely candidate for this condition. It is likely her M.D. might have initially given her some pain killers or anti-inflammatories and told her to take it easy. Unless there was something unusual in her history this would have been normal standard of care just as the chiro would be following normal standard of care by adjusting her low back or prescribing stretches, exercises, etc. If however either of these types of physicians did not perform an adequate examination or ignored any pertinent findings in the history or exam that is a different story.
There is good and bad in every profession. I would advise that it is best to find someone by referral. Find someone who has had a similar problem to your own and see who was able to help them. I would look for a D.C. who has good working relationships with other doctors such as Ortho’s or Neurologists and who is not adverse to referring out to these other providers when they find something that is unusual or beyond their scope. I would also look for someone who incorporates rehab into their practice, as stretching and strengthening are a critical component to getting well.
I apologize if I seem to lump all chiros together and you are very correct that in this time of HMO controlled cost cutting it’s probably just as likely that a “real” doctor could have missed the call. This did drag on for awhile and unlike many cancers I believe that the cure rate on ovarian cancer is pretty low if it isn’t caught early. They still have a large framed photo of her on the wall so it’s difficult not recall her death and wonder “what if ?”. My health insurance has some pretty hefty co-pays and a treatment that requires me to visit again and again for “adjustments” would probably just make me give up the activity that is causing the problem. Thank you for your thoughtful reply, I went overboard with the witchdoctor comparison.
My 2 cents… I went to a Chiro. Had nerve pain (eveyone thought ITB) due to pressure between L4 and L5. They wanted me in a few times a week. Anti inflamatory for diagnosed quad insertion. Then started building me in lifts for leg discrepency length. This now caused hip pain on other side. Said it would go away. Finally after getting to 7mm in lift and orthotic…Through the lift away. Pain in supposed quad insertion,gone in two days,pain in hip gone in two weeks…Bottom line…I needed that release between the L4-L5…All the other crap…No. With that said, I do not beleive anyone tried to rip me off. They did the best they could but just did not understand running mechanics ect… Its a cookie cutter shop handling accidents ect… There is a place for them. Most places due not understand athletes. There is a time and place for a Chiro…The problem lies in that we live in a capilistic country. (I think good)so we always have to be cautious on the sale.
Does the guy you are talking about do ART? I know 2 guys in Houston that are DC’s that do Active Release… if that’s them I would definitly recommend them because I know them personnally and had them work on me at a seminar. I am a chiropractor and see 90% sports related injuries. I do agree that there are many “oddballs” in the profession (like any other), it is unfortunate. But there are very good chiropractors out there, that know their scope of practice and know when adequate to refer out.
The story about the lady with ovarian cancer is very sad… On the other side of the medal, 5 years ago, I diagnosed a woman with bone cancer, and her MD completely missed out on it, she died within 6 months… I am sure it happens in every profession, sometimes because of negligence and sometimes not… I hope this helps, but please be smart, if it makes sense to you, and you are getting better with treatments, you will answer your own questions!!!
As Kenney said … you need to find someone (whether they are a chiro, MD or physiotherapist) that understands athletes and athletic injuries. My current MD told me that I’d probably have severe knee problems by the time I was 50 (I’ll be 38 in October so I guess I’ve only got 12 more years of putting in these mega-volume IM prep weeks … crap … finding a family doctor in Ontario is very difficult these days so I’m stuck with him for now) and when I was 18 I did muscle damage to my lower back running the steeplechase (think Perdita Felicien with the big friggin wooden hurdle and then throw in idiot me who kept training hard since Canadian jr. championships were 2 weeks away) and saw a specialist who put me on heavy muscle relaxants and told me that I’d have to give up running. The point is that if you find someone, like Mike Donia who posted previously, who is a chiro and was really a smoking fast triathlete a few years back (how is the training going Mike … are you getting back into form?) they will have a much better understanding of what you’ve done to hurt yourself and how to get you back in action.
I’m also a chiro. I’ve deliberately stayed out of this thread until now, (very uncharacteristic of me) because I was curious to hear what others on the forum have to say about their experiences.
I have respected your threads so much, I must reply…I really beleive they did their best for me. They are set up as a business to pay overhead,insurance,payroll and have to balance that with whats best for the patient. I just was not the normal patient they see. You(they)go to school for 6 or 8 years to help people “AND” support your family, and then have some Yahoo who comes in and says" I need to do an IM in 8 weeks and a 50 mile ultra in 18" Just not fair for them. Do I feel I wasted some money…Yes…Their fault “NO”. Dr’s (though we wish it)cannot do magic. The human body is just to complicated for simple answers. The best I can say is what a gal who has done a bunch of IM’s and ultra’s told me…When you do this stuff,you find you have limitations,and they are different for everyone and for different reasons. Thats the challenge,to find the limitations and to succesfully deal with them…There is no Doctor that can give these answers to each individual(though we wish they could)
I’ve worked with many chiropractors over the years and I have many friends who are chiropractors. Like any profession there are “good” ones and “bad” ones. The bad ones are motivated by money. They want you to come in 3 or 4 times a week for extended periods. Oftentimes your visit consists of cracking your back, patting you on the fanny and sending you home. They will tell you horror stories about what will happen if you fail to keep coming in and they beg you to bring in your family and friends. If you’re watching for this you should be able to spot one of these guys quickly. I can say with 100% certainty that these guys are out there. Fortunately, they’re not the majority.
There are also some very good chiropractors out there. They take the time to try to figure out your problem and provide individualized treatment that’s best for you. They’ll also teach you stretching and strengthening exercises that are appropriate for your condition. They won’t bad-mouth other health care providers and, indeed, will often work closely with MD’s, PT’s etc. Hopefully, they’ll be athletes themselves or will have worked with athletes.
Finally, there are the ho-hum generic chiropractors who are competent at treating backs but really don’t know much about sports injuries or conditions. They’d like to help, but really don’t know how.
So the bottom line is when looking for a chiropractor you should do as you would when looking for any other professional. Ask your friends who they like and ask WHY they like them. Try out different doctors. If your first visit consists of taking 10 x-rays and setting you up on a schedule for 50 more visits it’s likely not good. If the doctor takes time to try to figure out your particular condition and comes up with a treatment plan that includes home stretching and strengthening you’re probably in good hands.
I am a ‘real doctor’, and I gotta say in all fairness that I agree with Mike Donia’s post; many ‘real doctors’ miss ovarian cancer, it’s a bugger to diagnose because the symptoms are vague.
Where I work, it’s not an ‘either or thing’ - a lot of my patients see chiropactors, I send patients to chiropractors and chiropractors send me patients. In my experience, the guys I know are aware of when something isn’t working or is out of their area, and ask for an opinion. I don’t think it’s a panacea, but it helps quite a lot of people, and can be part of an overall approach. Oh, and a few of the chiropractors in our little town are triathletes.
So I’ll share my not-so-good experience. I chose the guy who advertised in the local Sports&Fitness section, a triathlete himself even. Well, he took all the x-rays and I came back for a consultation to see if I was a chiropractic case. SURPRISE!! I was a chiropractic case.
He wanted me to come in for adjustments 3x a week for basically an undetermined amount of time…but he said at 12-14 weeks we would re-evaluate. He never mentioned any core strengthening exercises or stretches or anything like that. Fixing my problem (bulge between L4 and L5) could take weeks or even months, he just couldn’t tell me. But he sure was ready to give me the sheet on payment plans and how if I sign up for their “package” of visits…I’d be saving X amount and could come in for up to 3 times a week or whatever. Well, I really didn’t give it much of a chance. After two adjustments, I realized it wasn’t for me. I just wasn’t buying it…he popped my back twice and that was it! A pat on the butt and I was on my way in less than 1 min worth of worth. And just as triwz predicted, this guy really didn’t have positive things to say about PTs/MDs. Anyways, you get the picture. I was a dollar sign to this guy, that was it.
Just wanted to share my .02. Might need to shop around…there are more good ones than bad I’m sure.
I think you could debate the good chiro vs. bad ad infinitum just as you could for MDs. So I will stay out of that one.
My story is that I have had a bad back for years, 20 to be exact, which stemmed from ten years of football two fairly bad auto accidents and one motorcycle wreck and the chiro has always bailed me out. I’ve seen a DO as well as a MD, PT and MT. And to be completely honest I needed to link all the above modalities to get long lasting results. As well I had to examine what activities were causing my pain and alter them accordingly. Yes avoiding impacts with stationary or high mass/velocity objects is one of them.
For some people one or two adjustments will do the trick, but for some if you do not address the muscle weakness (PT), tension(MT), inflexiblity(PT) issues, or other structural anomalies you may become a chronic visitor to the chiro.
Personally I need to keep up on my flexibility (hamstrings and hip flexors) and core strength or my back flares up. I also need to stay away from heavy weight lifting.
My leyman’s theory is that if you do not address the underlying cause then getting an adjustment is just temporarily alleviating symptoms.
After getting some references and thinking about some root cuases I would at least try it.
question for the chiros on the board: do you really believe in subluxations ? If yes, on what basis ? If no, what distinguishes chiro from physical therapy/physiatry ?
I have been using a Chiro for a little more than year. I had a knee problem, I first went to a highly recommended orthopod, he did all these test, couldnt find anything, was indecisive and just told me not to run. That didnt sound right to me, especially since he contradicted himself in two differenct visits. So I went to chiropracter on recommendation from a friend, he diagnosed the problem, did therapy for a couple of months, my knee eventually got better, and have been running faster since. So I think it is good alternative. In my opinion and experience Orthopods/MDs just want to do surgery and dont really want to recommend therapy as way to fix problems.