I found an interesting article on two of the main types of strokes. The ‘front quadrant’ type stroke which is used by Ian Thorpe and Grant Hackett, and the ‘rotary arm stroke’ which is more widely used by sprinters like Alexander Popov.
That is one of the better sites I found that explains the aspects of the freestyle technique.
So I wonder, which is better for open-water swimming? The article said the front quadrant swimming is more widely used by distances swimmers, but I would imagine the rotary arm stroke would be better suited for open water swimming.
My understanding is that front quadrant swimming is generally more efficient and that is why it is used by distance swimmers. Front quad is much more like TI swimming in that you are stretching and gliding a lot more than sprint style.
I could see using more of a sprint style, high turnover stroke in open water if there are large waves and you need some fast power to get off the beach, or to bridge up to another pack.
Given the nature of 1/2 IM and full IM triathlon, front quad. swimming works well for me. I get out in the top 5%-10% of the field in smaller races and I’ve barely used any energy. BTW, I don’t consider myself a fast swimmer, but I am pretty efficient.
Maybe I’m off here, but I thought a lot to do with your swim stroke was determined by your biomechanics. Janet Evans windmilled. Thorpe is all about the front quadrant. I’ve never thought about tailoring my stroke to whether or not I was swimming open water, other than maybe needing to get the elbows higher to clear a light chop, perhaps.
Big kicker-> slower stroke rate
light kicker-> higher stroke rate
I’m also of the opinion that front quadrant is misunderstood. It’s not a goal or something you consciously aim to do in the water. It’s the natural effect because your recovery arm is moving without resistance/going faster than your arm in the water.
Front-quadrant swimming is related to timing, namely timing of the recovery. Now is the recovery an important aspect of reducing drag? Or of propulsion? No, it impacts mostly balance in the water (Which in fact impacts drag, but it’s secondary). Anyway, the most important aspect of swimming fast is the high elbow, as Counsilman pointed out decades ago. And that aspect is emphasized in the australian freestyle, with swimmers swimming with a very high elbow. Also note that Phelps swims like that, only with a different timing.
My opinion is that timing is not an important factor in swimming open water. What is a bit factor is the underwater pattern of the pull. Swimmers with a more straight back pull are faster in open water than swimmers with a S-shaped pull.
My opinion is that timing is not an important factor in swimming open water. What is a bit factor is the underwater pattern of the pull. Swimmers with a more straight back pull are faster in open water than swimmers with a S-shaped pull. Really. How general a rule is this? Does it matter what the background of the swimmer is? How well they kick? Anything else? I would be hesitant to change my swimming stroke, but am always willing to consider new information.
As a swim coach, I think I can offer some knowledgeable answers. In general, coaches tend to use the front quadrant or catch up freestyle with distance swimmers and those with stronger kicks and as you would believe, the opposite is true for those with stonger pulls and sprinters. For open water swimming, I would recommend the front quadrant style that Ian Thorpe uses.
I am definitely not an elite triathlete and never will be, but I was a 4:50 – 500 yard, 17:00 flat – 1650 swimmer, which I would characterize as mediocre compared with the high school team that I swam on and our rival teams.
Now, that was before an 18 year layoff that ended around April 1 this year, which is my first for triathlons. I have only been swimming one day a week since then and up to about 4200 yards in a workout as I am a really poor cyclist and there is so much more room for time improvement there. Anyway, given my current pool times, I think that I should be able to swim a 500 in 5:30 and maybe even break 20 in a 1650 this winter if I pay attention to swimming a little more, like going twice a week and doing a little bit of weights. I swam an Olympic distance this weekend in 22:30, but I think that the swim was a bit short as I went fairly easy on purpose to see if that would improve my bike speed. It did not; I was still very slow, and I will probably do my next Olympic swim faster.
I’m no coach (a mere 60’ IM swimmer), but I’ve found that high elbow swim technique from the pool doesn’t work on open water. From my experience, when swimming on the open water with a wetsuit you have to focus more on a long glide & stroke and strong pull instead of high elbow…
If I’m in a wetsuit, I’m one of the better swimmers in my AG, but if I’m not in a wetsuit, I’m MOP, unless it’s in a pool (i.e., short distance), then I’m again one of the better swimmers in my AG…I think this is simply because I’m strong on strength and weak on technique.
Every race, some skinny little girls and some big fat guys kick my tail in the water.
DON’T try to breast-stroke going into the wind unless you just want to aspirate a copious volume of water.
If I start to swim slowly, just swim on with one arm for 5-6 strokes, then switch to the other arm only for 5-6 strokes, then go back to both arms…this gets me to cut out the fancy S-curve stuff and just pull my arm straight back through the water…fingers pointed down.
In order to swim like a dolphin, I’d need a hole in the top of my head.
Just so you know, You are all set to go way faster and you will. Lots of guys and girls who were not much faster than you go sub-20 to open their Oly distance tri’s.
I started training for tri’s in mid 2002. Swim trained 2 months in '02, 4 months in '03 and 8 months so far this year (I plan to take Oct.-Nov. off) … A huge week for me is 4,000 yards once a week and 2,500 yards 2x a week. More average is 3,000 once a week and 2,500 once a week.
I never broke 2 min in the 200 in high school (my goal) and had not swam laps in 10 years until '02. Even with lots of rest, I can’t go under 1:05 in a 100 off the wall like I used to.
But with enough pool training and a dozen open water swims a summer, I can stagger out of the lake with a 21 and change, even though I don’t think I swim very straight.
This REALLY pisses me off!! (just kidding, nothing personal )
I would trade my wife for a 5:30 500, and I’d throw the dog in for the 4:50. I won’t even start in on the 1650 times…
So bottom line…is there any way someone who comes to swimming late in life can ever become this kind of a swimmer?
If I break 25 minutes for 1500m I feel like I just broke a world record. I can’t imagine any amount of training that would take 5 minutes or more off that time (right now I’m swimming 15-19k a week). But I know if I focused on the event I could (and have) done a 56 min 40K TT and/or run a 33min 10K.
God, I hate swimmers! (oops, wrong thread )
No, I don’t really hate swimmers, I just wish I had been pushed into the pool as a kid rather than into wrestling (a sport I was really not suited for, but this was Iowa during the Dan Gable era.) Guess I’m just jealous.
Well, I won’t ever swim close to a 4:50 again, but I think that the swimming background is a big plus for triathlons, at least with my whole three races worth of experience. But, there are disadvantages. I cannot (at least not yet) keep up a 20 MPH pace on the bike for 40 KM.
