On being smart

The Coffee Shop
1

in·tel·lect P Pronunciation Key ( n tl- kt )
n.
1.
a. The ability to learn and reason; the capacity for knowledge and understanding.
b. The ability to think abstractly or profoundly. See Synonyms at mind.
2. A person of great intellectual ability.

in·tel·lec·tu·al P Pronunciation Key ( n tl- k ch - l)
adj.
1.
a. Of or relating to the intellect.
b. Rational rather than emotional.
2. Appealing to or engaging the intellect: an intellectual book; an intellectual problem.
3.
a. Having or showing intellect, especially to a high degree. See Synonyms at intelligent.
b. Given to activities or pursuits that require exercise of the intellect.

n.
An intellectual person.

I despise these words. It sounds all great on paper but when we skip the definitions and look at what we call intellect and who we call an intellectual all we are really doing is setting people apart for being boring, being able to say only what sounds nice and what we want to hear. Agree with our simple thoughts so we can feel profound.

To be called an intellectual and talk about war you have to say war is wrong and pointless. You have to say war is of the past and truly thoughtful people do not go to war. You sit back, throw some letter behind your name, PHD, BS, BA, ESQUIRE, SIR, MADAM for good measure and in a monotone voice throw out the following unimaginative and shallow statement. “We as humans have to evolve out of the need for war. War is a terrible thing that does not suit us as evolved thinking creatures.” A lot of you are nodding your heads in agreement so I’ll throw my view of war into then mix. “War is a tool much like a hammer or a bike. War is the way large groups of humans gain control of resources. War is not avoidable; at some point one group will fight another. The way to avoid war is not to be everyone’s friend the way to avoid war to show covered strength. Show strength in military defense, economic systems and co-operation. Be a good neighbor but don’t be so stunned when others don’t like you and don’t be afraid to bloody a nose.” No instead of nods of agreement or tilting of heads for more information I hear “Fox news”, “Rush Limbaugh, “Nazi” not intellectual.

We put so much into people for what we think are great ideas. We abandon our own thoughts and give them over to others we deem smarter so we don’t have to waste the energy. Why think hard about politics when the parties can tell you what to say. Here in the Lavender room there is very little real thought or discussion, just lots of repeating the party line until the other looses interest. No creativity no depth just bullshit.

Both of my brothers are intellectuals. When they talk they throw their degrees around, fit in big words and feel rather smart. The problem is they aren’t really giving their own thoughts instead they build entire conversations around what others have said. The dual of quotes become mind numbing. Originality is not let in, only the endless waterfall of quotes and the be letting of those they do not agree with.

I despise having a degree thrown at me. Tell me about your degree in an argument and the gloves are off at that point. Keep your super fantastic philosophy degree in its holster because the words of others do not interest me, only your thoughts interest me.

I was listening to Studio 360 and the host was talking about getting ready to interview Susan Son tag. He talked about how he needed for Susan to accept him. How she was one of the great intellectuals and he didn’t want to insult her with a bad interview. So when the interview was played I was stunned at how unoriginal and bland she was. Nothing personal towards her or her memory but when someone builds up a person like that and all you hear is the same drab shit you hear on Sunday morning talk shows.

My request and it is a request that will die is too stop thinking of others brains and titles and listen to what they say and watch what they do. Stop quoting and start thinking

2

Nice post Tibbs, I tried to reply on the regular board but you had already moved it. It gave me a unique error message I thought you would like:

Error: the post you are accessing does not exist, return to main

3

That error mesage is kinda poetic.

4

War is hell. 'Nuff said. Susan Sontag didn’t know shee-dop about it, but then again, most people don’t, either. But I guess it somehow gives one a patina of intellectual credibility to talk as if Madame Sontag et al somehow have some insider knowledge about our universe and its workings. Phffffffpt!! :wink:

T.

5

Well, I agree that many people think of “intellectual” and “liberal” or “elite” or even “pacifist”, but I got my BA and my MA at military schools both of which were stock full of PhDs and intellectuals. I’ve talked with Esq’s and JDs and historians, writers, and thinkers from all over, most of whom could be counted among the best and brightest minds in the country, and osme from abroad. Very few of them spouted some sort of mindless “war is evil” crap. Unfortunately, every shmoe teaching in a college or university considers themselves an “intellectual” regardless of the fact that they may not really have much to say. Like you said, a degree doesn’t make you intelligent, and even an intelligent person with a PhD in literature doesn’t necessarily have a clue about national security matters.

Can’t we all stop labeling eachother? :wink:

6

“Stop quoting and start thinking.”

Ummm, sorry to quote you…

People are afraid to think or haven’t been taught how. In many respects, thought is a luxury of liberty and freedom. If you don;t have liberty and freedom, likely you won’t have to think much.

The problem with thought is that often times- always in fact- it isn’t done in a vacuum. That is, people are afraid to think because they are afraid to be wrong.

I’ll argue that is part of the process; being wrong, that is. People don;t like to be wrong, so they are afraid to think through to a conclusion. Also, people often think by comparision. That can be a good starting point, but it is restrictive sometimes.

Hmm. Big topic. For what its worth, I have no degree in anything.

7

The problem with thought is that often times- always in fact- it isn’t done in a vacuum. That is, people are afraid to think because they are afraid to be wrong.

I’ll argue that is part of the process; being wrong, that is. People don;t like to be wrong, so they are afraid to think through to a conclusion. Also, people often think by comparision. That can be a good starting point, but it is restrictive sometimes.

Well said, Tom. From that it seems to flow that one can not admit to a change of mind, for doing so would be to admit some error in one’s previous position. (Can you hear the “flip-flopper” charges now?).

I have this argument with my business partner all the time about his college student son. The boy is majoring in theater or poli sci or some other liberal arts field, and his dad is worried he won’t be able to get a job upon graduation. I keep telling them that if he’s learning how to think his major won’t make a lick of difference; and if he’s not learning how to think…then his major won’t make a lick of difference.

Paul
BA History, JD

8

No letters after my name, other than “drop out”. Here was my response after meditating on your question from November 18th of last year where you asked “What is war about then?” You never did give a counter-response, so maybe now is the time.

…My “ride revelation” was that war is about expanding the human consciousness. We all make mistakes, and eventually have an insight and realize our folly. Forever more we will not make the mistake again. I believe war is the same. It is a mistake that we are making, and have been for thousands of years, that we as a society have not yet realized. God uses war as a catalyst to lead us to the Light, as war and death demand reflection of ourselves and the world surrounding us. It is near impossible to go on with one’s thoughts as normal in times of war. He says to us “Do you see that if you only worship Me, there is much pain and suffering? My children, pay respect to your Mother too, She is the Goddess of Love, and without Her there are no potentials through which to experience My Light.” Or some shit like that…

Now, that being said, the paragraph above is not my thoughts. Certainly I seem to transmit that frequency more often than not, but it is not me, it’s just something I seem to tune into and then share.

When people are riding their high-horses, like your brothers tend to, remember what wise men say about talking “Those who talk do not know, and those who know do not talk.” Of course that makes sense too, as you can’t tell anybody something they don’t already know, and if they already know it, why the hell are you telling them again?

9

Degrees, degrees. I’ve got a few and I don’t think I’m too intellectual. And some of the smartest people that I’ve met have none at all. My former regional director here at Northwest had only a high school diploma (he started as a baggage handler 35 years ago), and he was smart as a whip.

It all depends on the faculties that the person brings to bear in using his “edumacation”, I guess :wink:

Tony

10

being educated doesn’t mean you’re smart just as being smart doesn’t mean you’re educated…my overly qualified, university educated, valedictorian, founder of the emergency response team brother often thinks far too highly of himself…I recently helped him fix the garage door at his new house…even though he had all the tools to do so he didn’t have all the ‘tools’ do accomplish it. He frequently reminds me of how much better off I’d be had I gone to post secondary education…yet he’s been out of it for a great many years and has yet to pay off the debt he incurred acquiring said education. I will admit he cana be quite book smart most of the time…but for life skills…the boy needs to be put down.

11

Heh, heh. Back when I was a young E-5 hospital corpsman, I worked with an emergency room physician navy officer who paid us 10 bucks a week to put gas and oil into her car. I swear, she could never figure out how to use the various engine dipsticks to check on the fluid levels herself (I saw her in action :-). I witnessed her put windshield washer fluid into the antifreeze reservoir. She’d end up frustrated and cussing at the machine (a Mercedes S-class that her father gave her when she finished medical school, go figure :wink:

But man, was she ice cold under pressure in a cardiac arrest. And one of the best damn suture jockeys I ever came across.

Tony

12

“I despise having a degree thrown at me. Tell me about your degree in an argument and the gloves are off at that point. Keep your super fantastic philosophy degree in its holster because the words of others do not interest me, only your thoughts interest me.”

Excuse me if I am feeling like a bit of a target in your eyes as I happen to have one of them there “super fantastic philosophy degrees” among others at that!

That said, I think you will have a hard time finding anyone who supports the idea that parroting the thoughts of someone else is a good thing. Same thing with anyone who would say “I have a degree, you don’t, I win.”

That is not the purpose of education. A classic liberal arts education is intended to provide the student with a foundation upon which to build and add to society. There is a reason people study the guy who brought us “I think, therefore, I am.” The reason is he articulated a line of reasoning better than anyone before him. He was not the first guy to take a run at the question “how do we know anything?” Does that mean he was not an original?

It is also appropriate to acknowledge the author of the idea you are using if you know it. To do otherwise is dishonest. To borrow (and paraphrase) from a prior thread, you asserted that you believed only what your senses told you was real. This is not an original thought. Studying philosophy (formally or informally) would expose you to the best thoughts on the topic. What you do with them afterwards is your responsibility. Mindlessly repeat or use to build your own argument. The choice is yours.

As to big words, the goal is communication. If you use words you know will not be understood, you will not communicate. But vocabulary has its place. Words represent ideas. If you can use the word instead of explaining with many words the concept embodied in the word, you are moving the discussion forward efficiently. Do you want your ER doctors talking about your two spongy, saclike respiratory organs in most vertebrates, occupying the chest cavity together with the heart and functioning to remove carbon dioxide from the blood and provide it with oxygen. Or do you want them talking about your lungs?

Your thoughts?

Sign me “Thrilled to have had the good luck to get one of those super fantastic philosophy degrees and utterly unrepentant.”

13

“Excuse me if I am feeling like a bit of a target in your eyes”

Don’t feel like a target.

“I think you will have a hard time finding anyone who supports the idea that parroting the thoughts of someone else is a good thing.”

Of course want find anyone who says it’s good but it is quite the pratice none the less.

"Same thing with anyone who would say “I have a degree, you don’t, I win.” "

Take the position of being the “stupid” one in an argument. The question of where did you go to school or what was your degree is used quite often.

“As to big words, the goal is communication.”

Correct but like you say later if the wrong words are used they are worthless.

As far a orginality goes sit back I have a lot to say about that.

14

Take the position of being the “stupid” one in an argument. The question of where did you go to school or what was your degree is used quite often.
I’ll second that. The network I grew up around has projected “great things”, whatever that means, for me since I was pretty young. Going to a big school and getting an impressive degree was part of that projection. When people I havn’t seen for years ask me what school I went to or what type of degree I’ve got, and hear my response that I went to a Cal State for a couple years before dropping out, and am working part time at a print shop while riding my bike three hours a day, they *generally *proceed to give unsolicited advice that implies I’m subpar to the Joe they used to know. Certainly we would all agree college is not for everyone, and there are a handful of great men and women that are routinely the subject of study in college courses that didn’t go to college or ended up dropping out. That being said, I think it’s pretty impressive when people get a degree and retain and apply much of what they learned, so I say sincerely “good on you Tri N OC.”

15

The basic truth is that there simply isn’t a lot of truly original thought. The vast majority of people, even those with massive amounts of education, can only really collect, synthesize, and modify the thoughts that have come before them. Most thoughts have been thought already. What’s important is that people try to expose themselves to as much different thought as possible, and then make their own decisions about what they agree with or not. Let’s face it, most people who give academic or intellectual sounding advice are just repeating what they’ve been taught or read. Only the guys at the very top of their fields generate much truly original thought, because they’re the ones who have the most exposure to everything else that’s already been thought of in their field.

16

War is God’s way of telling us the universe isn’t perfect; War is Nature’s way of reminding us we’re all animals.

Both ideas are regurgitations on themes of course.

17

"Take the position of being the “stupid” one in an argument. The question of where did you go to school or what was your degree is used quite often. "

If it does, here is a big word for you to trot out in response: Non Sequitur. ( A statement that does not follow logically from what preceded it.) Or you could go with “why resort to ad hominem attacks?” (Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason.) That ought to stifle the uppity brothers.

18

“bite me” works well too… :wink:

19

Not sure why you equate intellectualism with liberalism in general, or opposition to war in particular. It ain’t so. Anti-intellectualism is a Bad Thing. We’re supposed to be rational beings.

“The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by
fools.”
-Thucydides

20

The war reference was just off the top of my head so don’t get caught up in it. When I say intellectual I am not talking about its use in the proper since. I am talking about how it used in real life.

It is a term used for those with letters at the end of their names and monotone condescending voices who speak to general to ever be nailed down on something. The right has just as many as the left.