Ok have an idea of my sweat rate, now what?

OK I have done a few different runs at different times and temperatures and have a pretty good of my sweat rate in warmer and cooler weather. For example I will use my warm weather, low humidity sweat rate of 40oz per hour sweat loss. I have read about it quite a bit and all of the articles suggest now you know how much sweat you are losing and to try to drink near that amount for optimal fueling, both fueling with water/electrolytes/salt.

My questions are do I really have to drink near that amount per hour? because I feel like there is no way I could drink 40 oz. per hour over a half ironman or full distance run. Feel like I would be bloated big time
Am I missing the point here or is it something you have to train yourself to take on more fluids for your run?
Lastly is there any basis to this to follow for the bike sweat rate or do you have to do bike sweat rate as well? Thanks

40z is not that big of a deal, not even 1.5l an hour. I train and race with over 50z of liquids/hr on the bike. Mind you half of that is nutrition (EFS mixed with skratch) with the remaining being water. Also, I do live in south Florida where you walk to the mailbox and start sweating buckets. Try it out and it may work. If not then you know you need to dial it back.

You are going to get a bunch of responses on this, since its a controversial topic. There are those that are in the Noakes camp (drink to thirst) and let the chips fall where they may. There are others that have tried that and failed miserably (I am in that camp). Once I get to about 2 to 3 pounds down, my performance drops, any more than that, and its game over (its not n=1, either, as I know others in the same camp). I sweat 50+ oz, and I have trained my body to drink every 5 minutes (3-4 oz)…which gets me in the 45oz range…I need to be at lower HRs to assimilate that much fluid. On the bike, I don’t sweat as much, but drank 3 bottles/hour at IMKY in 2012 when Heat Index was over 98. The other side of this conversation is sodium. Its harder to tell how many electrolytes you are losing, but I have been tested and not only am I a heavy sweater, I also lose a bunch of electrolytes in my sweat. My infinit mix has 1000mg of sodium in it, and I am not afraid to add to that when I am drinking more fluids and/or it gets hot/humid. Again, there is more to mastering this, as everyone is different. Is there a possible danger to drinking too much fluid (absolutely). Its actually more fatal to error on that side, especially with out salt supplementation. But, performance is definitely hindered when you are dehydrated, so if you are aiming for performance, I suggest replacing 70-80% of that fluid and adding salt along the way for anything over 3 hours.

Have fun and do some searches for “Salt rate test” and “Noakes”. More information than you will care to read, but worth reading and developing a plan that works for you.

Thanks camdukio for all the help. I will check into that as well. I had a dehydration/salt issue at IMCDA (who didn’t right? Lol) so I want to get this dialed in for the next races which can be hot :slight_smile:

You are going to get a bunch of responses on this, since its a controversial topic. There are those that are in the Noakes camp (drink to thirst) …

You are right, it seems pretty controversial. If interested, Noakes and Maffetone were on Endurance Planet podcast recently and it’s interesting to hear him speak about the topic, not just read his comments.

I think you’ve summarized the heavy-sweater situation perfectly, at least for me. I’ll add a comment and a question. For long rides / runs in humid weather, I’ve had success pre-loading with sodium. Extra salt at meals and salty foods. This helps retain extra water so you start the workout on the high side. It’s hard to say what my actual weight is in the summer, probably around 172 lbs. But I start workouts as high as 178 lbs and finish as low as 165. Lower than 165, and my power drops through the floor.

The question is: how did you dial in 1000 mg of sodium? I’ve been using 750, but really don’t know if that’s correct. Sweat rate is an easy calculation, sodium loss seems more elusive to quantify.

I think you’ve summarized the heavy-sweater situation perfectly, at least for me. I’ll add a comment and a question. For long rides / runs in humid weather, I’ve had success pre-loading with sodium. Extra salt at meals and salty foods. This helps retain extra water so you start the workout on the high side. It’s hard to say what my actual weight is in the summer, probably around 172 lbs. But I start workouts as high as 178 lbs and finish as low as 165. Lower than 165, and my power drops through the floor.

The question is: how did you dial in 1000 mg of sodium? I’ve been using 750, but really don’t know if that’s correct. Sweat rate is an easy calculation, sodium loss seems more elusive to quantify.

Interestingly, enough, I drank a ton of water on one of my long runs trying to replace my fluids, because in the previous week I did a sweat test and lost like 6 pounds on an 18 miler…and I drank 20oz/hr…so, I knew I had an issue. I was not educated that well on electrolyte loss, so the next week, I drank a ton more and I noticed my hands were swelled up. Talked to a nutritionist, and she said I was probably hyponatremic, and to add salt. So, we kept adding salt. As you suggested, she had me eat more salty foods (I have low blood pressure…so no issues there) and even gave me a salt loading protocol (I can share if you PM me - but its basically sipping on a NUUN + saltstick + table salt concentrated drink every 15’ for 2 hours the night before a long day or race). And then we upped my salt 800mg/hr to 1000 to 1200 for IMKY. After the race, I decided to get a sweat test (Levelen.com - no affiliation, but for $75 they will send out a test and you can return it and they will give you all your loss numbers), and found out my real sweat rate (yes, it can vary depending on temps/diet, etc., but at least you know what category you are in…they will recommend their products, but lots of good information and testimonials…they work with NFL and Hockey teams). I found out I seat 1800mg/hr+ of sodium and even more of CL. Just like fluids, they say you don’t have to replace all of it, but target 70-80%. They have a bunch of abstracts on their website that have more detail. Again, your mileage may vary, everyone is different. MOST of my training partners have no issues with drinking to thirst and occasional salt pills…I am NOT one of those people. I have tried it with a salty diet, I have tried to reduce salt, and all other crazy things nutritionists have suggested…and the only thing that keeps my performance on a hot day (80+ deg and/or 80% humidity and/or Dew points above 60) similar to a 50 deg day is drinking and supplementing with electrolytes.

I’ve contemplated the test through Levelen.com I haddn’t because i figgured the results would be very cryptic:

“We recommend Levelen Level #”

But i can’t help but notice the lack of nutritional information on their website.

Did you get enough information that you could translate the results into other products? (that don’t cost $3 a serving)

I’ve contemplated the test through Levelen.com I haddn’t because i figgured the results would be very cryptic:

“We recommend Levelen Level #”

But i can’t help but notice the lack of nutritional information on their website.

Did you get enough information that you could translate the results into other products? (that don’t cost $3 a serving)

That is funny, I thought the same thing, but the nutritionist I work with said she uses them for her other athletes and I am not sure if any of them use Levelen the product or not. They give you a 2 page report that explains your ranges, and how it applies to your specific report. I immediately asked them some questions, which they responded to in depth rather quickly. I did not ask for nutrition information, but I am going to right now and report back. Since, I am a “Level 5”, I will find out what is in that. They assured me that they get athletes all the time that are above my levels (both in hydration and electrolyte loss). They give you losses in mg and in mmols…which I left to the nutritionist. Levelen said they have athletes in the 120mmol/L of Na+ loss…not sure what that means, but sounds like a lot :slight_smile:

Below are the values they report on:

Sweat Rate (L/hr)
Sweat Na+ (mmol/L & mg/hr)
Sweat K+ (mmol/hr)
Sweat Cl- (mmol/L & mg/hr)
NaCl loss ( g/hr )

I also struggle with this situation but one thing that has helped me is to start super hydrating (including carbo/protein mix) with added salt tabs 48 hours prior to a big event so carrying in some extra water weight to help offset the losses.

A different take on this kind of testing: http://trisutto.com/training-tests/
.

They responded that the nutrition information is on the web site under Levelen>Nutrition. I did look there, and they did have it for the Level 3, but no others, so I told them that. Also, they did tell me that the level 5 had 1500mg of sodium.

OK I have done a few different runs at different times and temperatures and have a pretty good of my sweat rate in warmer and cooler weather. For example I will use my warm weather, low humidity sweat rate of 40oz per hour sweat loss. I have read about it quite a bit and all of the articles suggest now you know how much sweat you are losing and to try to drink near that amount for optimal fueling, both fueling with water/electrolytes/salt.

My questions are do I really have to drink near that amount per hour? because I feel like there is no way I could drink 40 oz. per hour over a half ironman or full distance run. Feel like I would be bloated big time
Am I missing the point here or is it something you have to train yourself to take on more fluids for your run?
Lastly is there any basis to this to follow for the bike sweat rate or do you have to do bike sweat rate as well? Thanks

If you are doing the run at 8mph (7:30 miles), it comes out to 5oz. (1 gel flask’s worth) at each aid station. Very doable.

Personally I take about 4oz./mile…but I’m drinking 1.5L/hr on the bike.

A different take on this kind of testing: http://trisutto.com/training-tests/

Wow, he really is full of shit. I’m sorry, but:

“3) The longer the race the more liquid calories we use in comparison to water. As a squad we tend to have good salt retention because we pay attention to not washing it out before and during the race.”

is not a sufficient hydration / electrolyte strategy. That might work for some, but I have proven on multiple occasions (training and racing, since apparently only what happens in races is important, according to Sutton) that it doesn’t work for me. Do people really pay for this advice?

I think you’ve summarized the heavy-sweater situation perfectly, at least for me. I’ll add a comment and a question. For long rides / runs in humid weather, I’ve had success pre-loading with sodium. Extra salt at meals and salty foods. This helps retain extra water so you start the workout on the high side. It’s hard to say what my actual weight is in the summer, probably around 172 lbs. But I start workouts as high as 178 lbs and finish as low as 165. Lower than 165, and my power drops through the floor.

The question is: how did you dial in 1000 mg of sodium? I’ve been using 750, but really don’t know if that’s correct. Sweat rate is an easy calculation, sodium loss seems more elusive to quantify.

Interestingly, enough, I drank a ton of water on one of my long runs trying to replace my fluids, because in the previous week I did a sweat test and lost like 6 pounds on an 18 miler…and I drank 20oz/hr…so, I knew I had an issue. I was not educated that well on electrolyte loss, so the next week, I drank a ton more and I noticed my hands were swelled up. Talked to a nutritionist, and she said I was probably hyponatremic, and to add salt. So, we kept adding salt. As you suggested, she had me eat more salty foods (I have low blood pressure…so no issues there) and even gave me a salt loading protocol (I can share if you PM me - but its basically sipping on a NUUN + saltstick + table salt concentrated drink every 15’ for 2 hours the night before a long day or race). And then we upped my salt 800mg/hr to 1000 to 1200 for IMKY. After the race, I decided to get a sweat test (Levelen.com - no affiliation, but for $75 they will send out a test and you can return it and they will give you all your loss numbers), and found out my real sweat rate (yes, it can vary depending on temps/diet, etc., but at least you know what category you are in…they will recommend their products, but lots of good information and testimonials…they work with NFL and Hockey teams). I found out I seat 1800mg/hr+ of sodium and even more of CL. Just like fluids, they say you don’t have to replace all of it, but target 70-80%. They have a bunch of abstracts on their website that have more detail. Again, your mileage may vary, everyone is different. MOST of my training partners have no issues with drinking to thirst and occasional salt pills…I am NOT one of those people. I have tried it with a salty diet, I have tried to reduce salt, and all other crazy things nutritionists have suggested…and the only thing that keeps my performance on a hot day (80+ deg and/or 80% humidity and/or Dew points above 60) similar to a 50 deg day is drinking and supplementing with electrolytes.

I’m very interested in your loading protocol. Honestly, I haven’t tried anything quantitative to pre-load, just add a bunch of table salt to meals and enjoy some saltier foods (BBQ comes to mind.) Your method seems more efficient and reproducible. But, after numerous failures under hot / humid conditions (e.g., DNF in Cozumel 2011), I had a great race last year in Kona, and even negative split the run. But as you say, drinking to thirst with the occasional salt stick doesn’t even come close to sufficient.

Ironically, all of the training this summer in 65-70 F dewpoints is for IM Tahoe, where I’ll probably have to pee all race long if I consume more than 20 oz / hr of liquid. Unfortunately, I don’t have the luxury of training under race conditions.

A different take on this kind of testing: http://trisutto.com/training-tests/

Wow, he really is full of shit. I’m sorry, but:

“3) The longer the race the more liquid calories we use in comparison to water. As a squad we tend to have good salt retention because we pay attention to not washing it out before and during the race.”

is not a sufficient hydration / electrolyte strategy. That might work for some, but I have proven on multiple occasions (training and racing, since apparently only what happens in races is important, according to Sutton) that it doesn’t work for me. Do people really pay for this advice?Some do (I don’t and have no link whatsoever with him).