I know, I know, there is already a thread but I could not resist!
Such hate and vitriol from the left.
Oh my, oh my, whatever will they do?
Weird thing is that (at least right now) msnbc.com has it as one of the leads on their front page, with mostly positive - “Love of God, Country, Reign as Thousands Heed Beck’s Call”
And I searched really hard on foxnews.com to find it. After not seeing it on the main page or the “U.S.” section, I had to search for “honor” before finding the link.
That is curious. Maybe the evil Bill O’ is keeping it off Fox, after all he lost a bet.
lol, I hadn’t paid attn during the day, and thought you were kidding and trying to be obnoxious, but from reading the other thread it looks like you are serious. I like Beck’s radio show because he’s really funny, but on his TV shows he seems schizophrenic, at times putting out some pretty far out conspiracy theories, and other times he is as he was at the rally, full of information and awe related to the history of the country and it’s disparate peoples.
Oh the change is coming! Not really but it makes people happy to get into groups. What a waste of time.
Do you support the building of the Islamic center and mosque near Ground Zero? If you do, why do you fear the message this man Beck was putting out today? His seemed to closely mimic that of the Imam Rauf’s when he talks about interfaith comity and such. I saw many traditional displays of patriotism over on the C-Span coverage of the rally, hackneyed and trite some of them may be in this day and age. What’s so bad about that?
“Do you support the building of the Islamic center and mosque near Ground Zero?”
Yes.
“If you do, why do you fear the message this man Beck was putting out today?”
I don’t fear it I just see it as the empty bluster of yet another media talking head.
“His seemed to closely mimic that of the Imam Rauf’s when he talks about interfaith comity and such.”
I have no idea what and who you are talking about.
"I saw many traditional displays of patriotism over on the C-Span coverage of the rally, hackneyed and trite some of them may be in this day and age. What’s so bad about that? "
Nothing is bad. I just Beck as a conspiracy loving little stooge and it is fun to laugh at him.
I have no idea really what you are talking about.
“His seemed to closely mimic that of the Imam Rauf’s when he talks about interfaith comity and such.”
I have no idea what and who you are talking about.
The Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf and his wife Daisy Kahn are the leaders of the effort to erect the Ground Zero Mosque. He’s written movingly, at least while in the United States (his overseas speeches and commentaries are generally of a slightly more fundamentalist viewpoint, on occasion), of the need for the three major monotheistic religions to coexist in harmony and comity with each other. You seem as if you’re interjecting yourself into the debate over the Ground Zero Mosque in the other threads (“Oik” et al) without being completely informed about the players and the issues attached to either the Mosque or the larger debate about the increasingly-divergent views held by two different philosophical camps among the citizenry here in the United States.
As to the whole Glen Beck animus, that’s completely understandable. But the message that I saw being “preached” today on C-Span’s coverage of the rally was completely benign, patriotic by the lights of most of the people who attended today, and laudatory in the main. Beck’s presence and leading role in organizing it, I’m sure, is coloring the perceptions of many who mistake the message of the rally with the persona of the man who organized it. But even at that, the man’s certainly no firebrand like Fr. Charles Coughlin and others of similar technique back in the 20th century. In fact, he’d be considered tepid in comparison to Coughlin or many of the preachers and adherents of Christian Identity, say, or even the Americans of the 30s and 40s who began pushing Anglo-American Israelism over here. Today’s believers in those tenets are much more worrisome than anything that a fellow like Beck might get up to, trust me.
completely benign, patriotic by the lights of most of the people who attended today, and laudatory in the main.
I mostly agree.
But there are code phrases being used. “Restoring honor.” “Taking back the civil rights movement” “Wake up, America” Those are fear-mongering phrases. They imply an enemy within our midst. Forces that are stealing our history, and rending the very fabric that makes us American. And a call to action. You and I both know who the enemies he’s referring to are.
I don’t like code phrases.
Yes I know liberals also have code phrases they use to speak to their fellow travelers, and I don’t like those either.
when you hear code that seems to be over-the-top patriotic, it’s typically generated by those who are the least patriotic. it’s mccarthyism all over again. it sounds patriotic to call somebody unamerican, but, what is really unamerican is ginning up the majority to exert tyranny over those who our founding fathers were most interested in protecting.
there is in fact no such thing as a “ground zero mosque,” and i’d like to know the justification for why it is that a mosque cannot be built two or three blocks away from where the twin towers stood, if that’s where new yorkers have decided a particular mosque, or cultural center, ought to be built. how many blocks from the world trade center should the 1st amendment be ignored and dishonored? should we have a 4 block radius, inside of which non-new-yorkers force new yorkers to set aside the constitution and the bill of rights? should we shred the constitution for 6 blocks? 8? i’m wondering how much new york real estate i, a californian, should force new yorkers to ignore.
i don’t have to take my country back. i already have it. i have one 300-millionth of it, which i own, and which can’t be taken from me, and the balance of the equity in my country is shared among christians, mormons, conservatives, muslims, jews, liberals, atheists, gays, and communists. the very best thing we could do is move that mosque a block or two closer to ground zero. if glenn beck advocated for that, he’d prove that he really does understand the first amendment to our constitution, and i might have to consider changing my opinion of him.
there is in fact no such thing as a “ground zero mosque,” and i’d like to know the justification for why it is that a mosque cannot be built two or three blocks away from where the twin towers stood, if that’s where new yorkers have decided a particular mosque, or cultural center, ought to be built. how many blocks from the world trade center should the 1st amendment be ignored and dishonored? should we have a 4 block radius, inside of which non-new-yorkers force new yorkers to set aside the constitution and the bill of rights? should we shred the constitution for 6 blocks? 8? i’m wondering how much new york real estate i, a californian, should force new yorkers to ignore.
You are framing it only from the 1st amendment debate, which is really no debate at all, as most believe they have the *right* to build there. You also seem to indicate that this is just a bunch of outsiders coming in and protesting, while I see a serious and healthy debate between NYers going on. I do agree with the question about distance, and that was my first thought, okay two blocks is too close...how an by whom is an appropriate distance arrived at? An over-arching point to me is that this is a contentious issue, both in an out of the city, and given the stated goal of the facility, should there not be a point at which that very contentiousness makes Rauf and the developers back off?
“You seem as if you’re interjecting yourself into the debate over the Ground Zero Mosque in the other threads (“Oik” et al) without being completely informed about the players and the issues attached to either the Mosque or the larger debate about the increasingly-divergent views held by two different philosophical camps among the citizenry here in the United States.”
Yes I am interjecting myself because I don’t see a reason not to build the Masque even if Faisal and his wife are led away in hand cuffs another Muslim organization can build there. Also isn’t this Masque a great idea since we will know the location of an active terrorist cell? It will make tracking and bugging that much easier.
“You also seem to indicate that this is just a bunch of outsiders coming in and protesting, while I see a serious and healthy debate between NYers going on”
i don’t see evidence of that. i saw a set of hearings, over a period of many months, lots of thumbs up from the neighborhood advisory board where this facility is being constructed (in fact, unanimous “yes” votes). if you go back to last spring, the wall street journal wrote about it, and there were no dissenting voices mentioned in its article. that’s where this “healthy debate between NYers” took place, and, almost all NYers in that part of manhattan were enthusiastic.
a NY daily news article, also contemporaneous with last spring’s neighborhood meetings, found zero naysayers at those community meetings. i don’t read about any naysayers. that reporter had to call around to people not at the meeting to find ANY who were opposed. he quoted two people who, while apparently not concerned enough to community meetings, nevertheless were against the project. the statement one gave was, “If you ask me, it’s a religion of hate.”
the “healthy debate between NYers” took place, over a period of months, and there were almost no naysayers, and there were zero votes against. there was no real debate until the outsiders, like newt gingrich, decided that the islamic facility builders were “radical islamists” who “don’t have any interest in reaching out to the community. They’re trying to make a case about supremacy.”
there’s the genesis of your “healthy debate,” and of course this is as legitimate an argument as saying i should not stand for any christian churches in my town because of what the ku klux klan and other terrorists did in the name of christ.
the GOP politicized the mosque story in order to damage obama. i’m surprised you let yourself fall for this. a lot of right thinking republicans are outraged by this, and i might recommend reading a transcript of joe scarborough’s show on it. as a matter of fact, i’ll save you the legwork. here it is:
*This is demagoguery of the first order. And the Republican party…people in the Republican Party need to separate themselves from these voices. They need to separate themselves. And I talk to my you, my Republican brethren, I don’t know how much longer you will be my brethren – I’ll be honest I’m looking for a conservative party that actually believes in small government and not engaging in Wilsonian wars – but that’s another discussion. I’m talking to you as a friend. *
*I promise you this, you’re going to be embarrassed. You’re going to look back two, three, four years from now and this is going to be a dark blot on your record if you don’t speak out against Newt Gingrich and the voices of hate. Not on the right. Because this has nothing to do with small government. There are demagogues on left and the right. This is an embarrassment and you need to speak out against it. *
Glenn is doing exactly what he needs to do to get people to buy into is garbage.
“Blah blah blah lots of good history and patriotic stuff blah blah blah.”
“Obama’s a racist.”
“Obama is a muslim and not even a citizen.”
“Lets restore honor to this country.”
I don’t think anyone has a problem with that first quote. It’s when you tie that in with the following 3 that there becomes an overall theme that is downright scary. Beck really hasn’t changed much since his days at the morning zoo.
It’s not a little bit troubling that it requires a man like Beck–who makes a ridiculously comfortable living drawing parallels between the Obama Administration and genocidal totalitarian regimes like Hitler’s and Stalin’s; and who describes our (Christian, family and community-oriented) President as a “racist” with “deep-seated hatred of white people”–to draw such a crowd in the name of “turning back to God” and “restoring honor.”
There are probably hundreds of worthwhile charismatic Christians and political Conservative leaders with whom people could ally themselves for such purposes; sadly, but not surprisingly, they choose the PT Barnum of the political right.
Agree and disagree. The pub congressman NY, Peter King, was out against this long before this was on the Gingrich radar. (Admittedly, I’m not even sure if I had heard of it before Gingrich started using the Fox megaphone to call foul) No doubt Gingrich is an opportunist of the ugly variety here (though he kicks ass as an analyst/commentator), and even King is saying that Gingrich and Palin have gone too far. So on the whole I’d say your point that there was not big and loud opposition till Gingrich is true. OTOH, the point that charlie6 made about a fringe of radical Muslims gaining a “victory” if it goes through is also true.
My sense is that even plenty of locals were not aware of the center, as so many Americans are disengaged from politics, and that there is more debate now than there was because of that heightened awareness. My value-added point, 
was that the clusterflock that this has become, rightly or wrongly, is itself a part of the decision process.
Glenn is doing exactly what he needs to do to get people to buy into is garbage.
At least Glenn Beck’s people pick up their garbage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NioIQc6hA8M&feature=player_embedded
Whereas Barack Obama’s people do not pick up their garbage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrTiR-CowAA&feature=player_embedded
Taking the limited videos as what they are, I know I shouldn’t, I want to give a big high five to the Beck stooges. Littering is disgusting and evil. Litterers should be shot on sight by anyone armed. Litterers are the worst kind of people. I stand up for your rights to do drugs, own guns, hire hookers and buy pornography the lest you can do is put your stupid coffee cup in the trash.
So good for you unthinking zombies of Beck. I belittle you but believe you are good hearted and going to heaven.
I always knew you were a reasonable person.
Of course I am. If you and I can agree on the pure evil rotted souls of litters then we can live in this world as friends. By the way I am not over doing it. I can’t understand why people can’t hold something for the few minutes it takes to find a proper trash receptacle. These are the same people who can’t push their shopping carts back the front of the store or to those little cart corals in the parking lot. What assholes.