Oh My Aching Saddle

Triathlon Forum
1

There remains this unfortunate truism: 35 years after the inventions of the aerobar saddle soreness while in the aero position remains the largest comfort problem while riding in this position. Of course it’s not the saddle that aches, but the part of your anatomy that rests on it.

This will be one of our “curated discussions,” like our bike fit assistance threads, and answers to your saddle questions should come quickly, and by bike fitters who have experience solving saddle issues. First-line help is from Eric Reid, who curates our Cervelo Fit Assistance thread. You may let fly with questions, comments, anything saddle-related, whether tri-specific or not, but tri is our main interest.

2

I’ve accepted that I’ll never be comfortable! For me its a choice between numbness or eventual saddle sore.

3

not tri-bike specific, but applicable to tri / road / gravel, I think. I can ride almost anything short of a splintered plank of wood outdoors, as long as its fitted correctly. Indoors seems to be more of a challenge to get right. I’m wondering how those 2 things relate, should I be looking at solving the indoor situation with a new saddle, or would I be better off with using the saddle(s) that I like for outdoor riding and looking at making the ride experience indoors more like outdoors, whether that’s switching to rollers, a rocker plate, a Kurt rock n roll trainer, etc? or both? or something else?

4

Tilting the saddle nose down always seems to help with discomfort in the nether regions but then I feel like I am sliding out over my aerobars and have to keep pushing myself back. Any thoughts other than, go see a reputable fitter? I’m trying a Sitero that was loaned to me and so far it seems ok. I bet I have a $1,000 worth of saddles in the basement that I have tried over the years.

I have been professionally fit on three different occasions and have never really been comfortable on my bike. It has largely “chased me out of triathlon”. In 2016, about 90 miles in to my seventh Ironman, I was so uncomfortable that I decided that I was taking a year off from tri training and just never went back (I’ve been running a lot of miles but that’s it…) 2021 has me dipping my toes back in. I’m signed up for two tris, but in the absence of comfort on the bike, I won’t last long.

5

So without getting too graphic, I have always wondered if there is a way to measure or assess our perineum down there (privately of course) and use that information to help pick out an appropriate saddle based on length, width, etc.

6

A couple of things I found helpful in my day:

(1) Use 2 pairs of cycling shorts (at the same time) when you do something where you expect pain in the glutes (e.g. the first long workout of the year or a long race.) The lycra still wicks away the moisture and the extra padding distributes the pressure more, so less pressure on any given spot.

(2) I used a seat shifter (I don’t know if these are still legal/available), but when one part of my bum was sore I could move the seat a little and change the point of max pressure to a spot that was a little less sensitive.

7

It’s been mentioned before many times, but is worth repeating, even if it doesn’t solve everyone’s problems.

Lowering your saddle, sometimes significantly, often can help a LOT.

I had to lower my saddle so much that it felt almost ridiculous (which also cost me a lot of power initially) but then gradually tested raising it tiny amounts at a time until I reached a position that no longer gave me saddle sores. After that was known, I kept raising a little until I started getting minimal problems, and used a position in between the two.

I periodicially remove my seatposts to make sure they don’t seize, and I’ll admit in the past I’ve never been good about marking the replacement position, and when I start getting saddle sores again on long rides, it’s invariably the seatpost height.

For me, the seatpost height made ALL the difference. I had even purchased 3 different seats of varying height, thickness, and softness all of which failed before making the seatpost change and thankfully it solved everything for me. Dont’ get me wrong - if I don’t ride much and then go out and do a 3-hour ride , sure the rear end will feel it, but in contrast, with a good seat height, the training works meaning I can safely build up to those long rides without sores limiting me.

8

Tilting the saddle nose down always seems to help with discomfort in the nether regions but then I feel like I am sliding out over my aerobars and have to keep pushing myself back. Any thoughts other than, go see a reputable fitter? I’m trying a Sitero that was loaned to me and so far it seems ok. I bet I have a $1,000 worth of saddles in the basement that I have tried over the years.

I have been professionally fit on three different occasions and have never really been comfortable on my bike. It has largely “chased me out of triathlon”. In 2016, about 90 miles in to my seventh Ironman, I was so uncomfortable that I decided that I was taking a year off from tri training and just never went back (I’ve been running a lot of miles but that’s it…) 2021 has me dipping my toes back in. I’m signed up for two tris, but in the absence of comfort on the bike, I won’t last long.

i always tilt the saddle nose down until i begin to slide forward. you know this of course when you’re constantly pushing yourself back in the saddle. depending on how and where you measure on the saddle, that’s a 2.5 to 4 degree tilt. you can’t slide forward. that’s a no-go.

9

So without getting too graphic, I have always wondered if there is a way to measure or assess our perineum down there (privately of course) and use that information to help pick out an appropriate saddle based on length, width, etc.

pressure mapping is a thing. the most notable brand associated with this is gebiomized. my problem, issue, concern, hesitation, with pressure mapping is what it always is with any prescriptive system. what is the metric that causes you to change or determine your behavior? i look at saddles like i look at dating. how will you choose your spouse? by a questionnaire? or by going out on a bunch of dates?

years ago we sponsored the slowtwitch saddle tour. we sent a piece of tech around the country, to a bunch of shops and bike fitters. it was a quick-change saddle device you could put on your fit bike, and you could change a saddle in 10 seconds, without the rider even having to get off the bike. you could do a pretty good demo of 4 or 5 saddles over a period of 20 minutes.

of course you couldn’t know what saddle would work, for sure, over the long haul, but - just like dating - you could pretty well figure out which prospects would not work pretty quickly. as in, after 30 seconds. often it came down to “finalists”, as in, it’s either this saddle or that. and then the shop had its policies for how you settled that issue.

there is a new saddle changing device now entering the market, which will now make 2 of them on the market, and i think testing - “dating” - various saddles is surest way to determined your “behavior,” which is in this case how you choose a saddle.

i have been to a lot of bike shops, bike studios, fitter’s studios, and the way things have been - what i’ve seen - is unfortunately that the choice of saddles is thin in the places i’ve visited. i have probably 70 or 80 saddles in my workshop. i’ve got to shops with expensive fit studios and the choice of aerobars is, maybe, 2, and the choice of saddles not more than 3 or 4. finding the right saddle is not that hard, but experience, tooling, selection, matters.

10

Tilting the saddle nose down always seems to help with discomfort in the nether regions but then I feel like I am sliding out over my aerobars and have to keep pushing myself back. Any thoughts other than, go see a reputable fitter? I’m trying a Sitero that was loaned to me and so far it seems ok. I bet I have a $1,000 worth of saddles in the basement that I have tried over the years.

I have been professionally fit on three different occasions and have never really been comfortable on my bike. It has largely “chased me out of triathlon”. In 2016, about 90 miles in to my seventh Ironman, I was so uncomfortable that I decided that I was taking a year off from tri training and just never went back (I’ve been running a lot of miles but that’s it…) 2021 has me dipping my toes back in. I’m signed up for two tris, but in the absence of comfort on the bike, I won’t last long.

I have found that a narrow saddle with almost no flare-out at the back has been the key to being comfortable. I currently use a Dash saddle, the Stage G2 narrow width. It is a pretty minimalist saddle from a padding standpoint, but it curves downward in such a way that I don’t have to tilt it much, so I can stay on it without too many issues with the undercarriage. My Shiv came with a Sitero and I hated it, it was too wide, too blunt, the nose was cut off at angle that left me either being crushed or dangling on the front with no support. IMHO it is a terrible saddle with nothing to recommend it. I realize, however, that anatomic differences will make this the saddle that someone has been seeking their whole life. Just not me. I can’t recommend Dash highly enough. great customer service, and a trial period for a pretty affordable cost to see if it works for you.

11

If I start riding time trial/triathlon bikes again, I would be tempted to go custom. The saddles from MELD transformed my road and gravel bikes over the last year. I get that it’s a different part of the anatomy, but I’m curious if they have done much to address that as well.

12

Tilting the saddle nose down always seems to help with discomfort in the nether regions but then I feel like I am sliding out over my aerobars and have to keep pushing myself back. Any thoughts other than, go see a reputable fitter? I’m trying a Sitero that was loaned to me and so far it seems ok. I bet I have a $1,000 worth of saddles in the basement that I have tried over the years.

I have been professionally fit on three different occasions and have never really been comfortable on my bike. It has largely “chased me out of triathlon”. In 2016, about 90 miles in to my seventh Ironman, I was so uncomfortable that I decided that I was taking a year off from tri training and just never went back (I’ve been running a lot of miles but that’s it…) 2021 has me dipping my toes back in. I’m signed up for two tris, but in the absence of comfort on the bike, I won’t last long.

I have found that a narrow saddle with almost no flare-out at the back has been the key to being comfortable. I currently use a Dash saddle, the Stage G2 narrow width. It is a pretty minimalist saddle from a padding standpoint, but it curves downward in such a way that I don’t have to tilt it much, so I can stay on it without too many issues with the undercarriage. My Shiv came with a Sitero and I hated it, it was too wide, too blunt, the nose was cut off at angle that left me either being crushed or dangling on the front with no support. IMHO it is a terrible saddle with nothing to recommend it. I realize, however, that anatomic differences will make this the saddle that someone has been seeking their whole life. Just not me. I can’t recommend Dash highly enough. great customer service, and a trial period for a pretty affordable cost to see if it works for you.

It’s funny, I’ve been riding Cobb saddles for years with an Adamo that I trade in and out every once in awhile when things get too uncomfortable. Trying to find that Holy Grail…

My brother in law loaned me the Sitero in a bag full of parts. I decided to throw it on for a trial and so far it has been the most comfortable I can remember being in aero position.

The Dash intrigues me. I may have to trial one and see what I think.

13

I have been lucky to find the perfect saddle (perfect to me, obviously!) for my road bike: Selle SMP Dynamic.

However, it does not ‘work’ with my Tri Bike and I have yet to find a good saddle.

‘Standard Saddle’ + Fisik Mistica + Fabric Tri Race + Prologo dimension Tri + SMP Dynamic + Cobb JOF + SMP TT 2 => numbness in aero position

ISM PN2.1 + ISM PN3.1 + Bontrager Hilo => Numbness is ok but causes chafing / saddle sores … ISM PN2.1 seemed to be a bit better if angled down significantly and prongs zipped tighter … but then that results in back pain!

I am due to receive end of this week the Dash Strike (stock G2) … crossing fingers !

14

not tri-bike specific, but applicable to tri / road / gravel, I think. I can ride almost anything short of a splintered plank of wood outdoors, as long as its fitted correctly. Indoors seems to be more of a challenge to get right. I’m wondering how those 2 things relate, should I be looking at solving the indoor situation with a new saddle, or would I be better off with using the saddle(s) that I like for outdoor riding and looking at making the ride experience indoors more like outdoors, whether that’s switching to rollers, a rocker plate, a Kurt rock n roll trainer, etc? or both? or something else?

I have the nearly exact same thing. I made a rocker plate. It helps but did not solve the problem. On the road I can ride a fairly hard (nearly no padding) saddle but on the trainer padding is what I need to be comfy. I have tried various saddles and so far nothing is that perfect one… So I would say if you are like me the rocker plate may help but probably will not solve it. My rocker has all sorts of adjustment by changing the rubber spacers I use and springs etc and it has enough rocking when standing seems about similar to the road. It does not however move forward too much, maybe a cm? or so?

15

I’ve accepted that I’ll never be comfortable! For me its a choice between numbness or eventual saddle sore.

It doesn’t have to be this way! Somewhere, there is the right way to sit on the right saddle for you and the position you’re in. We can find it.

E

16

not tri-bike specific, but applicable to tri / road / gravel, I think. I can ride almost anything short of a splintered plank of wood outdoors, as long as its fitted correctly. Indoors seems to be more of a challenge to get right. I’m wondering how those 2 things relate, should I be looking at solving the indoor situation with a new saddle, or would I be better off with using the saddle(s) that I like for outdoor riding and looking at making the ride experience indoors more like outdoors, whether that’s switching to rollers, a rocker plate, a Kurt rock n roll trainer, etc? or both? or something else?

This is a great question, and I’m in danger of derailing the thread, but indoors the fact that your bike doesn’t move side-to-side is a huge component of indoor discomfort. I’ve talked to people that used those bumper plate things under their trainers to add some suspension. I think short of that a neoprene saddle cover, or a saddle with more padding, would help.

That said, it’s a magnifying issue. Anything suboptimal outdoors will be magnified indoors. For either drop bars or time trial applications the right saddle, for you, in your position, will help.

What are you on now?

Eric

17

Tilting the saddle nose down always seems to help with discomfort in the nether regions but then I feel like I am sliding out over my aerobars and have to keep pushing myself back. Any thoughts other than, go see a reputable fitter? I’m trying a Sitero that was loaned to me and so far it seems ok. I bet I have a $1,000 worth of saddles in the basement that I have tried over the years.

I have been professionally fit on three different occasions and have never really been comfortable on my bike. It has largely “chased me out of triathlon”. In 2016, about 90 miles in to my seventh Ironman, I was so uncomfortable that I decided that I was taking a year off from tri training and just never went back (I’ve been running a lot of miles but that’s it…) 2021 has me dipping my toes back in. I’m signed up for two tris, but in the absence of comfort on the bike, I won’t last long.

There’s a way to stop yourself from sliding forward that doesn’t involve the saddle. My usual Slowtwitch persona is to make you guess (because earned wisdom sticks way better than received wisdom) or direct you to your local fitter, but in this case I’ll make an exception. Tilting your bars up, to match the downward tilt of today’s modern saddles is an extremely effective and optimal way to get the best of both worlds with regard to saddle tilt and positional stability.

Make sense?

Eric

18

not tri-bike specific, but applicable to tri / road / gravel, I think. I can ride almost anything short of a splintered plank of wood outdoors, as long as its fitted correctly. Indoors seems to be more of a challenge to get right. I’m wondering how those 2 things relate, should I be looking at solving the indoor situation with a new saddle, or would I be better off with using the saddle(s) that I like for outdoor riding and looking at making the ride experience indoors more like outdoors, whether that’s switching to rollers, a rocker plate, a Kurt rock n roll trainer, etc? or both? or something else?

This is a great question, and I’m in danger of derailing the thread, but indoors the fact that your bike doesn’t move side-to-side is a huge component of indoor discomfort. I’ve talked to people that used those bumper plate things under their trainers to add some suspension. I think short of that a neoprene saddle cover, or a saddle with more padding, would help.

That said, it’s a magnifying issue. Anything suboptimal outdoors will be magnified indoors. For either drop bars or time trial applications the right saddle, for you, in your position, will help.

What are you on now?

Eric

on the TT bike I’m on a Cobb v-flow. I don’t really like that one indoors or out, but I’m not doing tris anymore, so its not really a priority.

on the roadie I’m on an old Selle Italia SLR, the original non-cutout minimalist version. I find that its very comfortable outside, the rides around here involve a lot of small rollers where you’re in and out of the saddle. I’ve gone on 3-4 hour rides and not even noticed it.

indoors is another matter. its too much pressure on a small point for an extended period if I use the SLR, so I’ve been using another oldie, a Selle Italia Century. Also quite comfy outdoors (again, falls into the “I forgot it was there” category) not bad indoors, but not great, up to about an hour and a half. I’m not numb anywhere, its just that I notice it and I’m conscious of a need to shift my weight occasionally. After an hour and a half, I have to stand up a lot more than I would like.

Based on what you and others have said, I think that something like a Kinetic rock&roll smart trainer would go a long way, both from a natural movement and terrain simulation on Zwift so I’d be more inclined to get out of the saddle on small rises.

19

Not sure if it was Rappstar that I first read this from, many years ago now on slowtwitch, but since then I’ve worn sports briefs under my tri shorts and that has reduced or eliminated any chaffing or discomfort more than any padding or wax/cream ever has.

I also use ISM PS2.0 on both my TT and road bikes. I’ve been tempted to test lighter saddles like Selle Italia’s Superflow variants, but it’s a low priority as I’m about as comfortable as I can expect up to ~120 miles as is.

That said, how much of saddle comfort has to do with riding harder? I notice that if I start to ease off on power and end up actually putting more weight on the saddle while in an aero position, it’ll eventually hurt. I feel like a good recipe for “comfort” is sticking to rides no longer than you can hold upper Z2, and adding time only after building strength and practice minimal coasting on shorter rides.

20

not tri-bike specific, but applicable to tri / road / gravel, I think. I can ride almost anything short of a splintered plank of wood outdoors, as long as its fitted correctly. Indoors seems to be more of a challenge to get right. I’m wondering how those 2 things relate, should I be looking at solving the indoor situation with a new saddle, or would I be better off with using the saddle(s) that I like for outdoor riding and looking at making the ride experience indoors more like outdoors, whether that’s switching to rollers, a rocker plate, a Kurt rock n roll trainer, etc? or both? or something else?

This is me so much. I have had great TT and Road saddle success with a large variety of saddles. Indoor? Not so much if I am riding over 2 hours. I have a very nice rocker plate, great fits of all of my bikes and a nice trainer. Once I hit the 2 hours mark I either need to get off for 15 minutes and give ye ole taint a break or swap out bikes and resume. Nothing has ever helped this.