tridude i am not gonna sugar coat this - you are a scary dude.
the issue here is not lying and it is not strippers. the issue is you and your controlling and your willingness to deflect that into a no-win situation for this girl.
scary. my advice is for this girl to run not walk away from you, until you get a handle on this.
Well, this might not be what you want to hear, but I honestly don’t see anything wrong with the young lady in question having a night on the town and fun with her friends even if it involves strippers. Being a guy you may have been involved in similar situations. It is pretty innocent adult fun if kept in check, and most people do keep it in check.
The central issues aren’t strippers: They are honesty and trust and probably some control issues.
I would advise against trying to control another person. The only person who’s conduct you can control is yours and most times that takes a lot of work to do a really good job. That’s what makes relationships difficult- In order for them to work you have to be at the top level of “Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs” which is “self actualization” that comes after “esteem”. Those are hard places to get to and you don’t reach them in a controlling relationship. It is like doing Ironman- there is only one way to the finish: through yourself. Most adults are not “self-actualized” (look it up on the Internet).
Also, people never change. I dated a woman for about 2 years who was jealous, controlling, materialistic and dishonest. She had been hurt before we met (and I hurt her a few times too unfortunately)and she never let go of that hurt. She wore it like a badge. She talked a good line about “integrity” and “accountability” but she had affairs with married people, cheated on me, put me through hell when I “cheated” on her once (kissed a girl on the cheek and told her I would always love her in some capacity over dinner), put me through more hell, put constant pressure on me to marry her, etc., etc. She also always broke promises. I can’t tell you how many trips we planned together that were cancelled and I took a loss on becasue of some drama and a break-up. In the end she wound up in the sack with a guy from our bike club I introduced her to 18 hours after she threw me out because she had “Been doing a lot of thinking” and came to the conlcusion that “It takes more than love”. She dumped that guy soon after and is now trying to get back together with him. Huge mess. Whereever she goes she brings huge messes. I tried getting her and I into relationship counseling and when we went she would basically sit there while I “confessed my sins”. The therapist just said “I need to see you two seperately”. She went about four times and stopped. She wouldn’t take ownership of her part in the problem. She wouldn’t be accountable for any contribution she made to demise of the relationship. That is her pattern: Blame the other person, dump them, and move on. If you become involved with a person like that they will take advantage of you in the relationship, use your kindness and move on without a single feeling of guilt, remorse or wrongdoing. To this day, if you spoke with her, I’m certain she would say it was either all my fault or some B.S. like “Oh, we just couldn’t make it work.” which basically attributes no responsibility or accountability for her own actions. It is just a line.
If you look in the mirror and truly examine your own behavior and find you are like that you need to make changes before you will be happy in the contest of a lasting relationship.
Point being: If it becomes a chronic problem with no willingness to fix it or practice genuine self examination on either part (yours and hers is required) your chances aren’t good my friend. At that point it may be smart to walk away cordially, take some time to look at yourself and take stock, and then slowly try to move on.
Don’t get caught in what I went through. It damn near ruined my life. I went through a living hell for months, really, a couple years. My fault. I should have never gone on a second date.
Good luck my friend.
Point being,
(As seen in Sports Illustrated, and now on Slowtwitch.com
This week’s sign of the Apocalypse: Tom Demerly is giving relationship advise.
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good point
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And you know I’m just teasing you, Tom!
But if I’ve got questions about cats… I’m calling you first!!!
People can change, Tom. They just have to have to desire and motivation to do so. You are correct, however, in one respect. Many people don’t change because they perceive all their problems as being caused by others, not as having anything to do with themselves. Since they don’t think there is anything wrong with themselves, what’s the point in changing?
I realize that you have said that this is exactly the problem with your ex, but she is only one example. There are lots of good people out there who learn from their mistakes, and there are a lot of people who are trying to better themselves.
“I honestly don’t see anything wrong with the young lady in question having a night on the town and fun with her friends even if it involves strippers”
Tom, for a guy who has had his own relationship issues you’re giving some good advice. I see three possible case scenarios
Maybe she tells little (and not so little) white lies every now and then. IMO, this is a bad thing if this is routine. He should get rid of her.
Maybe she didn’t tell him the truth because of her fear of his reaction. That would indicate he’s a bit of a jealous control freak. IMO, also a bad thing. This type of behavious only ever gets worse. She should get rid of him.
Not really that big a deal. There is a bit of a communication problem in the relationship that needs some work. Stay together and work it out.
$.02 from a formerly walking wounded.
You’re right jmorrissey.
I’m a mad and bitter person to a large degree right now. It takes time for that to pass. Maybe years. After my mess I continued going to the therapist. I found it very interesting. Examining your own behavior can be pretty sobering. Taking responsibility for it is even more so.
Truth of the matter is, I loved that person dearly and I’m hurt. Nobody’s fault but my own. And whining about it doesn’t do anything.
ttn you need to watch more budwiser commercials. it’s never the guys fault.
…its the coaches fault,
…the fans fault,
…the medias fault,
…tim, it might even be your fault.
I think the answer to your problem is pretty obvious. Don’t say anything, but next time one of these here shindigs rolls around, you just sorta talk to one of her friends and volunteer to “host” (Wink, Wink) the party. When she shows up with one or two of her “party hosts” well, you can fill in the fireworks.
-If that don’t work out, let her know I’m always lookin
I agree…it’s all Tim’s fault…him and his steel bikes.
I want to join Dawn in raising the quotient of girls responding to a thread about girl issues. As a generalization, women see male strippers differently than I think men see female strippers, and I’ve talked with my husband to see if he validates this. We have a lot of trust between us, so we can usually have pretty good conversations about touchy stuff like this. For example, if I ask him whether so-and-so is attractive, he will tell me why he thinks yes or no. It helps me to understand how he thinks, which in turn makes me love him more. Of course, he has done a huge amount of work in building my confidence in him so that I won’t be threatened by his truthful answers.
Anyway, according to Darwinian theory, it’s commonly held that men in general are visually oriented, and at least on some limbic level, they can imagine themselves having sex with whomever has just landed before their eyes. My husband says this is largely true, and what a man in a committed relationship or marriage does in these situations is exercise control over that limbic part of himself by staying focused on what’s really important. Nevertheless, this is why ladies are not so comfortable with their fellas going to gentlemen’s establishments, where the visual aids are all around them. A woman on the other hand, and I believe I speak for at least some other women, can look at a stripper, or more likely, a triathlete in a speedo, and not have the slightest thought of having sex with him, in fact it would be anathema, since her need for sex is based more on feelings than on sight. Unfortunately, sometimes that need is power or control which is what Tom D ran into. Men may be uncomfortable with their ladies seeing strippers because of how they know they themselves respond, but for ladies it usually is not that way.
But I also agree with Tom that the issue is not male stippers; that is just a hot button. It could have been about money or a job or anything else. It’s really about trust, and with patience and love you guys can probably build some through this episode. You would have to come clean about having ‘snooped’ as you put it, and she could explain how things really happened, which is probably as innocent as several have speculated. But you would know each other better, and likely love each other more, if you can get through that exercise.
Spot on t-t-n. Though a question: tridude, just how old are you? (serious question)
Empty post contents.
I may not be able to help with the logic, since I’m pretty sure logic is not really involved. But I can say, yes, that vast numbers of women would not find comforting the notion that their SO is imagining having sex with someone else. I’m also pretty sure this is not news.
to everyone: thank you for replying. i guess i agree a bit with everyone (some more than others). i’d like to address the person that said she should run from me first. if you suspect something is wrong and you don’t expect them to tell the truth about it (exactly my situation) why am i so evil for snooping? why should she run from me? i’m not controlling (she definitely has more control in the relationship) and i’m not a “scary” guy. i’m just an ordinary guy that was uncomfortable with a situation that she would be in and wanted to find out exactly what was going on.
as for the person that suggested that females don’t visualize male strippers… then what is the point of getting/seeing them? why waste your time and money?
to the person that asked my age… 24.
to the person that said if she lies about the little things she’ll lie about the big things: that’s exactly what i’m worried about.
to tom d: thanks for the advice. often the people with the most experiences (be it good or bad) have the best answers.
i’m out of time for now - thanks again everyone.
Hey Tom,
How do you deal with the guy in your bike club, particularly if you were friends before? The ex I mentioned earlier was a complete couch potato when I met him. I introduced him to racing, an active lifestyle and helped him through his first ironman. I introduced him to a huge number of people throughout all this, including, of course a bunch of women “friends” who he has been sleeping his way through - some while he was seeing me, some since. I really struggle with how to maintain the relationships with these people and wonder if I’m crazy or if others have issues with that as well.
Sheri
I can’t offer Tridude much, but I have just the solution for Tom’s breakup angst. . .
Here is the 4-step program for getting over a women that just dumped you: Find a new woman who looks like your old girlfriend. Have sex with her. Break up with her. Relax and enjoy your restored mojo.
Cheers,
Marc
PS: I’m kidding.
PPS: By kidding, I mean to say you should have sex with her a few times, not just once. Everything else applies.
PPPS: I’m still kidding. No flames please.
I don’t interact with either of them. It is the best for all parties. No one involved would benefit in any way from even casual interaction. That is my “fault”. Of the people involved I feel like I was the only one who actually “took ownership” of their role in the problems. The new happy couple is like, “What’s the problem?” The problem is there were already commitments in place. A lot of lies were told, in complete violation of previous conversations- very specific conversations- over what constituted “lying” and “cheating”. I was guilty on every count, and stood tall in accepting the consequences. She does the same thing (arguably much worse) and we’re all supposed to be friends. bullshit. It is just for their social convenience. No other reason. They just want things to look “OK”. No one wants to be held accountable. She never even spoke to me afterward.
Am I mad? Scorned? Unreasonable? You betcha. Did I take steps to take responsibility for my role in this (it ISN’T all their fault, I made A LOT of mistakes too- the difference was, I was willing to answer to mine and change)by doing the whole relationship thing? Yes, I did, and she didn’t acknowledge that. The answer to the relationship issues to her were a bigger house, a pool, a hot tub, a four car garage…
I’ll tell you, I really want this to be my last comment on my issues, my situation. I think everyone knows airing my dirty laundry on a forum was rotten judgement on my part. So I need to stop as of this. One thing she was always right about, I love to get the “last word” in…
-Not like she’d ever see this crap I’m spewing anyway, or she even cares about it.
“if you suspect something is wrong and you don’t expect them to tell the truth about it (exactly my situation) why am i so evil for snooping?”
Man, if what you just wrote doesn’t make it clear to you that this is not a good relationship, then none of us will.
Why do you suspect her of lying to you (even though you turned out to be right) rather than trusting her?
Why does she, in fact, lie to you or keep things from you?
Why do you let your relationship evolve into an “uncomfortable situation”?
Hasn’t this gone too far already?
Why can’t both of you be open and honest with each other? What the hell is the point of getting into a relationship that’s riddled with distrust? There are much easier ways to get laid then getting saddled with a bad relationship. One of the biggest benefits of being involved with someone is the element of mutual trust and respect. Where is that in this case?
A simple test: If you feel you need to snoop on someone, then you don’t trust them. Why again would you be with someone you don’t trust??