I’ve been using a 9-10’ ride up a 4-5% slope hill as a benchmark for my fitness year-over-year, pre-power meter. I would like to use it to estimate my FTP but 10’ doesn’t quite do it. Can I ride it, push the lap button and cruise back to the bottom (2:00 minutes??, maybe 3:00 minutes) then push the lap button again and climb back to the top? Might the average of the 2 climbing laps approximate FTP or be proportional to? (A real eyeball roller to be sure).
Upload the workout file to intervals.icu for them to estimate your eFTP?
yeah intervals.icu uses best 6 min power from the ramp test, so it should work fine
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Best average of 5-7 times will probably be close.
And that’s a total SWAG
Is it a measure of FTP (the power than can be sustained for about an hour)? No.
That effort is closer to a VO2max effort than it is to FTP. As Jaret says, 5-7x would be “better”…but, 5-7 x 10’ with 2:30 rest is not the same as 45-60min continuous…its too much rest allowing for greater effort on each climb.
Is it a measure of fitness? yes. Would improvements indicate improvements in FTP? Yes.
thank you, I forgot to include that I have power meters (pedal) now though maybe it was obvious. I’ll check the mentioned URL.
yeah intervals.icu uses best 6 min power from the ramp test, so it should work fine
That is very likely to be an overestimate of true FTP.
Just because some program uses “best 6 min power” from a ramp test to estimate FTP doesn’t mean that someone could actually ride for 60 minutes at that “best 6 min power from a ramp test”. There are countless examples of folks who can “ace” such a ramp test, and still not be able to hold that power for a true 60min TT.
That’s just another example of a measure that will be related (proportional, but perhaps not linearly) to FTP, but not equivalent to it.
thank you, I forgot to include that I have power meters (pedal) now though maybe it was obvious. I’ll check the mentioned URL.
If that’s the case, $15 used fluid trainer off Craigslist and chew your bar tape through the pain and boredom of a stationary test?
Very few places near me can I ride nonstop for 20min with any real steady application of power.
Trainerroad has a 2x8min option – do two all-out 8min intervals separated by 10mins of recovery spinning, and then take 90% of the average of the two. This probably “works” with 9-10min intervals up your climb as well, especially since my hunch is that 2x8min * .9 probably overstates FTP for most people anyway.
For simplicity’s sake, I’d try that for a decent benchmark, and just be tuned into how your training feels based on the number afterward.
Try a W’ or Critical Power calculator like https://trainerday.com/w-prime-calculator/ . It should be able to estimate your CP (equivalent to FTP) based on shorter times. Like the other tests, it’s probably an overestimate, but close.
Ftp test are to be done fully seated. On the climb people tend to get out of the seat to get bigger numbers. Although climbing is safer than going 3x speed on the flats
You’ve gotten some similar replies. But adding an additional anecdote.
I’m a cat 2 crit racer and have very good VO2 max power and terrible FTP.
Ramp tests, those based on 6 and 8 minute power, and even the golden cheetah modeling WAY overestimate what I can do for an hour.
As an example, a zwift ramp test estimated me at 340w. When my best 20 minute power in the previous year had been 290. My best 40K TT had been around 280W.
So, how good these proxies are depend 100% on your particular physiology.
Now I spent 22 years of my life wrestling. Not a surprise I can go hard for 7 minutes.
My wife (cat 1 crit racer), on the other hand, was a cross country runner and has nearly the same best power from everything from 10 minutes to 3 hours. And a sprint that is at the elite level on the Coggan charts.
Our training should look VERY different. Which is why thinking of your intervals as a %FTP works in a general population. But falls apart quickly for individuals on the extremes of the spectrum. To improve, I should probably be doing my VO2 intervals at like 125% FTP and hers should probably be at 110%.
Again, just an anecdote. But illustrates the point.
Some programs allow you to set limits on what minimum durations to be uses as inputs into FTP models. I know intervals.icu does and I’d be shocked if GC didn’t.
Try Xert. 10 minutes should be enough to get a number if you are full out. Spot on for me.
The fundamental question here is: Are you trying to get an FTP value from which to base your power zones for daily training?
If yes, then a workable solution would be to do a hill climb effort followed by an FTP test within a couple of days. You could get a reasonable percentage that’s unlikely to change short term. Say you do the 10 min climb at 300w and the FTP test shows 275w (91.5%). You could substitute further FTP tests for hill climb efforts and just multiply it by 91.5% for FTP calculations. It’s not perfect but it’s gonna be close enough for 99% of athletes.