How do you know if a bike you are shopping is open mold? Should it matter? Are they lesser quality?
As I’m bike shopping I find myself looking at some smaller manufacturers. I see the discussion come up online about many being open mold and it has me wondering if I should really consider them.
I don’t think I would ever buy an OEM knock off from over seas.
For the record, I’m looking at OBED, Ventom, and Lauf.
For the record, I’m looking at OBED, Ventom, and Lauf.
I think those are all direct sale. So if you’re buying them direct from their own sites, you’re fine.
For buying new I would only buy direct from the manufacturer for those three. Or a really reputable 3rd party seller of new bikes like Pro’s Closet (who do have Ventum stock).
Depends on your aim… Is it budget? Desire to have a unique bike? Boutique innovation? Style? Performance? Etc.? Your personal priorities will guide how you make a selection decision.
There is nothing inherently wrong with an open mold frame. Some may be very good. The difficult part is figuring out which ones are just promises versus those who live up. The big upside is usually cost savings.
I would never consider any kind of OEM knock-off. That is IP theft.
I would shop open mold if budget was my top priority, but I would do a lot of research of the seller and frame. I would not consider anything that I could not find many legitimate customer testimonials. Or, if the onshore reseller has a strong brand, I would trust the local brand. For example, Monoprice briefly offered carbon wheels and frames. I trust Monoprice because they have never let me down on other products.
Depends on your aim… Is it budget? Desire to have a unique bike? Boutique innovation? Style? Performance? Etc.? Your personal priorities will guide how you make a selection decision.
There is nothing inherently wrong with an open mold frame. Some may be very good. The difficult part is figuring out which ones are just promises versus those who live up. The big upside is usually cost savings.
I would never consider any kind of OEM knock-off. That is IP theft.
I would shop open mold if budget was my top priority, but I would do a lot of research of the seller and frame. I would not consider anything that I could not find many legitimate customer testimonials. Or, if the onshore reseller has a strong brand, I would trust the local brand. For example, Monoprice briefly offered carbon wheels and frames. I trust Monoprice because they have never let me down on other products.
I got thinking about this after listening to the Marginal Gains Podcast about carbon repair. There was some low level discussion about who has quality carbon construction. That’s what got me a little worried about buying from a brand that is just painting an open mold design.
I have never bought a new bike before, always used. While budget is a part of it, it’s not at the top of the list. I do find myself drawn to more unique or innovative designs. For example, the cable routing on the Ventom. I don’t see anyone else doing it as clean. My question is, who makes their frames?
My question is, who makes their frames?If you contact Ventum, they can probably answer. But there is a solid general answer…
Almost all brands contract their frame manufacturing in either China or Taiwan. Their factories are far more advanced and cost-efficient than US factories for carbon fabrication. So, the “who” for almost every bike is not relevant.
An open mold frame is simply a frame design & layup that is not protected by someone else copyright. (Or, the copyright is owned by the manufacture instead of a brand.) Those manufacturers know all of the best manufacturing practices, because they are already doing it. So, the open mold frames could be awesome or basic. Again, the “who” there is not relevant, just the specifications they put into the fabrication. The same open mold frame could be awesome (if it has a great layup spec) or just as easily mediocre. Same as with many US-branded bikes that have two or three levels of carbon layup-- all the frames look identical from the outside, but the weight and stiffness vary as you move up the price point.
I am pretty sure that Ventum specs their frame layup in great detail and they own the frame design copyright.
I don’t believe that a frame design can be copyrighted.
The mold is simply owned by the company that paid for it and no one else can use it unless they have permission.
I don’t believe that a frame design can be copyrighted.
The mold is simply owned by the company that paid for it and no one else can use it unless they have permission.You probably know best. It is kind of an issue of semantics, like in the music industry. The “owner” is the entity that has possession of the original recording, not necessarily the sheet music.
There’s nothing wrong with open mold products sold through reputable brands. Typically the bigger brands will have someone doing QC on all frames before they take receipt of them. That might be done in China or stateside depending on the size of the company. The brand is making sure you receive a top quality product even if they didn’t do the full frame design. That said, most of these brands will have tweaked the frame just a little bit (example: OBED uses a PF bottom bracket interface opposed to BSA).
If you’re going to buy from one of the 3 names you mentioned, I’d have no problem whatsoever. If you were going to buy a Carbonda opposed to an OBED, I’d tell you to do your research and make sure you understand the in house QC is probably not the same level as what OBED will do. You might end up with a frame that has a slight imperfection or two or you might end up with a perfectly good frame. That’s the factory direct risk.
Also, some brands will exclusively license a mold from a factory. An example of this is Thesis purchasing the license to Flybike/Carbonda’s 505 frame mold. There use to be a bunch of bike brands using that frame design, but now you can only purchase that frame design from Thesis. If you look around the internet, you’ll see a bunch of companies using the Flybike/Carbonda 696 mold (OBED, Ridley, Framed, Vitus, Boltcutter…).
Also to the op - email the brands you are interested in and just ask them why you should buy from them versus factory direct. What are they doing to make sure you receive a safe and quality product? I emailed a few brands when buying my bike and they all responded back within a timely period. Some replied back saying they have full control of carbon layup, some responded back about QC. The point is, you can hear from them yourself and make your decision based on that information.
There’s nothing wrong with open mold products sold through reputable brands. Typically the bigger brands will have someone doing QC on all frames before they take receipt of them. That might be done in China or stateside depending on the size of the company. The brand is making sure you receive a top quality product even if they didn’t do the full frame design. That said, most of these brands will have tweaked the frame just a little bit (example: OBED uses a PF bottom bracket interface opposed to BSA).
If you’re going to buy from one of the 3 names you mentioned, I’d have no problem whatsoever. If you were going to buy a Carbonda opposed to an OBED, I’d tell you to do your research and make sure you understand the in house QC is probably not the same level as what OBED will do. You might end up with a frame that has a slight imperfection or two or you might end up with a perfectly good frame. That’s the factory direct risk.
Also, some brands will exclusively license a mold from a factory. An example of this is Thesis purchasing the license to Flybike/Carbonda’s 505 frame mold. There use to be a bunch of bike brands using that frame design, but now you can only purchase that frame design from Thesis. If you look around the internet, you’ll see a bunch of companies using the Flybike/Carbonda 696 mold (OBED, Ridley, Framed, Vitus, Boltcutter…).
Also to the op - email the brands you are interested in and just ask them why you should buy from them versus factory direct. What are they doing to make sure you receive a safe and quality product? I emailed a few brands when buying my bike and they all responded back within a timely period. Some replied back saying they have full control of carbon layup, some responded back about QC. The point is, you can hear from them yourself and make your decision based on that information.
I echo these comments. I purchased a Carbonda 696 factory direct in 2018. It was about 700 USD shipped to Canada, compared to an Obed Boundary that is 1800 USD (today’s pricing) and made in the same mold by Carbonda. Only the consumer can decide if that extra money equates to extra value. I had a few minor QC complaints with my Carbonda that likely wouldn’t have gotten past an OEM QC dept. Things like the top tube direct mount bolts were slightly crooked, paint finishing around the brake mounts and cable ports. I later had a small hairline crack develop in the dropout; dropouts are a lot harder to repair than a tubing crack. This would have likely been covered under Obed’s warranty, or at least crash replacement pricing. The frame rode great and I had no plans of replacing it for a long time (before discovering the crack), even as a chronic bike flipper.
Getting a Carbonda frame took about 8 weeks from quote to delivery and this was pre-pandemic bike boom. Many brands will have shorter lead times and their orders (with Carbonda or other manufacturers) will take priority over individual orders.
With all that said, for my Carbonda replacement I went with a Ventum GS1. It had a few unique features and I decided this time I was willing and able to spend the extra money to have a top OEM quality finished product with warranty support.
With all that said, for my Carbonda replacement I went with a Ventum GS1. It had a few unique features and I decided this time I was willing and able to spend the extra money to have a top OEM quality finished product with warranty support.
Great input from everyone.
How do you like the GS1? That is the bike I’m looking at. It helps that they do have them with only an 8 week lead time.
I purchased an open mold gravel frame from spcyle on aliexpress and I’ve got to say that I’m very happy with it after ~2+ years of use. Never had any problems with seat posts slipping, stiffness, something out of alignment, etc. It’s been solid.
The only thing I don’t really like is that the front thru axle is 15mm (when it seems the road market is all 12mm front, so 12mm front wheel axles are more common), but I’m lucky that I invested in DTswiss 350 hubs that can be easily changed from 12 to 15mm with the right adapter and the BB-style center lock rotor ring. problem solved for me (at least).
With all that said, for my Carbonda replacement I went with a Ventum GS1. It had a few unique features and I decided this time I was willing and able to spend the extra money to have a top OEM quality finished product with warranty support.
Great input from everyone.
How do you like the GS1? That is the bike I’m looking at. It helps that they do have them with only an 8 week lead time.
I’ll let you know when I get it! It just shipped yesterday. Can’t wait to give it a try though