I’ve always wondered how many miles other runners typically get out of their running shoes. There’s lots empirical data but quantitative studies are lacking. That’s why I found this blog article interesting: http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/18/when-to-retire-a-running-shoe/
For the record, I typically get between 300-350 miles out of a pair of training shoes and 150-175 out of racing shoes (I’m 176 lbs. and run about 55-60 miles per week) with a long, long history of IT band issues.
Without fail my knees would start to bother me around 300 miles when I ran in “regular” running shoes, i.e. Brooks, K-Swiss, Asics, etc. I switched over to Hoka Bondi B’s last fall and I’m now at 600+ and don’t feel a thing. They are still going strong.
Without fail my knees would start to bother me around 300 miles when I ran in “regular” running shoes, i.e. Brooks, K-Swiss, Asics, etc. I switched over to Hoka Bondi B’s last fall and I’m now at 600+ and don’t feel a thing. They are still going strong.
You must run on dirt with our Bondi B’s? I’ve gone thru two pairs and burn through the outsole (midfoot strike area) within 120 miles (asphalt/concrete surfaces). I’ll keep them until 225-275 miles but the last 100 miles will be running directly on the foam material. Now the Hoka Evo’s I’ve been about to get 450 miles on and could probably squeeze another 100 miles if I really wanted to.
You must run on dirt with our Bondi B’s?
Nope. Very little dirt at all. I’d guess less than 10-15 miles. It’s all concrete and asphalt for me. Yes, the midfoot area is worn but I don’t think it effects the shoes performance. I feel it’s more a cosmetic issue.
I’m a slender lightweight runner (125 lbs). I’d say 1/3 of my miles are on packed dirt. I’ll go at least 500 miles before I’d consider changing shoes. The last pair I had, I went 800. I go by feel as well and wear/tear when deciding to change shoes.
I’m 155 and get 350-400 miles. I typically go by outsole wear and general feel. When both of those go to crap I retire them.
I’'ve really focused on my running form the last year and I now have two pair (Brooks Ravenna and Pure Cadence) that are over 400 miles and still look and feel fine.
i also have the cadence and for a ‘racing’ shoe they hold up quite well. They are my tri race shoes. I bought some fastwitch on clearance which feel a hell of a lot lighter but i havent run in them yet.
My back tends to let me know when my shoes are done (aside from wear on the sole of the shoe itself ofcourse). Ill get about 500kms out of saucony guide’s (my training and longer run shoes)
I ran over 2000 miles last year on 2 pairs of shoes (~1000 miles each) Mizuno Wave rider 13’s and Kinvara 2’s. The Kinvaras finally started to hurt my feet so I got a new pair of wave rider 15’s on black friday, but I’ve worn the old pair of riders a few times this year still with no issues.
AND, I weigh 185 (6’2"). How are you people wearing out shoes that fast? I run almost entirely on asphalt…
Wow, I run Kinivara 2s, but I start having pain issues after 3 months at 18mi/week. Granted I am 6’3 220lbs.
I have put over a thousand miles on each of my last 4 pairs of trainers. I haven’t found any evidence of increased injury rate as they aged. Maybe I am just missing something.
For those claiming to get over 800mi out of their shoes, consider this. There is a difference in the ability of EVA to attenuate shock at 100mi than at 300mi versus 800mi. If you can get 1000miles out of a pair of trainers, it probably means that you need less cushioning than the shoe provides when it started out.
Compression set on running shoe midsole material is in the range of 10-20%. That means if you are a pronator, which about 80% of people are, then the medial (between your feet) portion of the midsole may compress 20% relative to the lateral (opposite of medial) portion. (The lightweight midsole of racing flats may even have compression set closer to 30%)
I.E. if your shoe heel is 1" thick, then after some wear the outer part of the heel may still be 1" thick, while the inner portion is .8" thick. You are now always running on an uneven surface, which can cause a myriad of pains from the hips down.
I run 1000-2000 miles in flats; Nike Lunaracers right now. (I’m 6’:0", 155lbs.) I get that by running about 100-200 miles, then using a grinder to resurface the outsole so that it is again perpendicular to the upper. (That is, I remove a lot of material on the outer edge of the shoe.)
You can do the same thing by building up the medial outsole with ShoeGoo. Also know that another common compression spot is under the ball of the foot. Remove the sock liner, and rub one hand around the inside of the shoe with the other on the outsole. It is common to be able to feel a noticeable compression around the ball of the foot. This causes the same problem. Again, remedy by filling the depression (inside the shoe) with ShoeGoo.
As a prior poster mentioned, this compression comes at the cost of cushioning. So if the actual shock absorption is important to you, none of this helps.
But then, if I bought a shoe with less cushioning, wouldn’t that EVA wear out as well after 300 mi, so I would have even LESS cushioning?
Basically, aren’t you saying I should buy a shoe with less cushioning then go buy new ones every 300ish miles…that would mean I would go through ~7 pairs of shoes in a year, versus 2.
I’m an engineer, so I’d probably agree with you if I really cared to research it more, but also maybe I don’t buy into the shoe marketing saying I need a new pair of shoes every time I step out the door, or maybe I am just the one poor triathlete out there who can’t afford to do that. Or maybe, and this is pretty crazy, I have found something that works for me, and instead of trying to come up with a one size fits all, thats what everyone else should do to. Everyone keeps repeating this 300-500 mile or 3 month rule, hoping I think if its said enough it will become canon.
I am always amazed at how fearful everyone is of experimenting on their own…
If you adopt a chi/barefoot running style, your shoes last until the soles wear out. If you are running correctly its not about cushioning its about conditioning your feet to minimalist shoes and very limited impact running. I really like the fact that I am no longer spending $150 every six months
You may have a very neutral gait, in which case your compression occurs evenly; material density will not be a factor. Also, the level of pronation required to cause injury is quite wide; some pronate to 15deg and have no symptoms, others have issues (IT band, posterior tibialis, etc.) as low as 8 degrees.
It is great that you can run 2000 miles in your shoes, without modification (I mentioned above) but you are an outlier; like 4+sigma outlier.
But then, if I bought a shoe with less cushioning, wouldn’t that EVA wear out as well after 300 mi, so I would have even LESS cushioning?
Basically, aren’t you saying I should buy a shoe with less cushioning then go buy new ones every 300ish miles…that would mean I would go through ~7 pairs of shoes in a year, versus 2.
I’m an engineer, so I’d probably agree with you if I really cared to research it more, but also maybe I don’t buy into the shoe marketing saying I need a new pair of shoes every time I step out the door, or maybe I am just the one poor triathlete out there who can’t afford to do that. Or maybe, and this is pretty crazy, I have found something that works for me, and instead of trying to come up with a one size fits all, thats what everyone else should do to. Everyone keeps repeating this 300-500 mile or 3 month rule, hoping I think if its said enough it will become canon.
I am always amazed at how fearful everyone is of experimenting on their own…
I don’t change my oil every 3000 miles, guessing you don’t either.
I shop discount stores and look to see what shoes they have in my size marked down anywhere from 50-85%. I buy when they are on sale rather than waiting until I need them. Last year I needed something with an 8-12mm drop so that’s what I looked for, and towards the end of the year I had switched my running style slowly over time to where a 4mm drop is more sufficient. With that said I have two pairs of perfectly fine shoes that I got while they were on sale (I am cheap!) that fit this bill and still have my pair that I bought last June for easy runs. I don’t count miles all that well since I alternate between two pairs most of the time so I can let them totally dry out (I sweat a lot), but I know that I only had one niggle last year and that wasn’t due to shoes, it was due to stupidity and zero taper for a “B” race.
I probably have put 600 or so miles on my shoes I bought last June, retired a pair this past November and don’t have a lot of miles on my other two pairs of shoes. Saucony Grid Profile pair has around 200 miles maybe, and the latest ones I got were New Balance 730’s and I am really digging them as they feel great for my long runs, not to mention they are the lightest shoes I have ever owned. I have less than 50 miles on them as I just bought them a couple weeks ago.
I think the issue is that, I believe we can all change our gait and running dynamics with practice. My gait was not originally neutral, I was a pronator. I’ve had two stress fractures, plantar fachitus, strained MCL, degenerative knee, bursitus. I started in Brooks Beast in 2000, then through PT and retraining got to nimbus and Kineisis (?) with orthodics. Then 24 months ago I started over. Got some barefoot coaching from Barefoot Ted. Now that I have started from scratch to barefoot/minimilis, I still get some tenderness in the nueroma, but tolerable. The knee will always ache a bit (I’m 59) but I’ve just got to learn to live with it. The feet are getting stronger. Its funny how much attention we pay to cycling form, swimming form, but sort of accept that running style is something you are born with or that you can’t change pronation or foot issues. My wife had the ugliest feet imaginable, fractures, all the issues. She’s been solely five fingers since 2009 (having read born to run and met Scott Jurek) pretty much injury free, but in her case it really was a 3 year journey of gradual transition and re-conditioning her feet.
The running gait is what I think is missed in the article. A person who heel strikes is going to wear out their shoes much sooner than a person is a forefoot runner just do to how the body absorbs the shock while running. I’ve ran in my Newtons for a year and the fabric on the sides is wearing apart with holes, but they still feel fine to run in due because I run on my forefront.
Another issue is that as you transition from traditional shoes → minimalist shoes → no shoes, you eliminate the issues with compression set/wear; there is simply less material to compress, and thus the imbalances that result go to zero as the material (midsole) thickness goes to zero.
Much of the debate about shoes/no-shoes seems to forget that the debate should also include properly fitted and appropriate footwear that is still within its useable life, versus footwear that was ill-advised and or worn-out.
I’m 155 and get 350-400 miles.
You put this guy to shame: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fauja_Singh