are you guys toko, swix, rode? something else? questions:
- do you typically hot wax or use rub on wax? does it change if you’re riding classic versus skate skis?
- if toko, and it’s hot wax, talk to me about dibloc lf versus system 3.
Dan,
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Real nordic skiers hot wax.
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The regular toko yellow hydrocarbon wax is a great wax for most skiing conditions above -5C. It melts easily. Has good base absorption if your bases are in good shape. Is easy to scrape. Is reasonably durable and not that expensive.
The Dibloc series is a flourinated wax. It’s quite a bit more expensive. Is typically a bit “faster” in high humidity conditions and is more durable if applied right. However, as you can tell( although perhaps not an issues for you) it’s quite a bit more expensive, and it’s much more tricky to apply. Need a much higher heat on the iron and need to know what you are doing. Regarding this last point there is a much great risk of base damage due to heat.
I use Ski-Go and Holmenkol (with swix and dominator on occasion).
ALWAYS hot wax, cool, then scrape brush. NOTE : you CAN over-scrape, you CANNOT over-brush.
As Fleck mentions, a basic paraffin based wax is fine for training. But yellow tends to be the warm(er) waxes from most brands and you almost always want to err on the colder side if forced to make a decision.
For me, I train almost exclusively on Ski-GO LF Blue. Very durable, very hydrophobic and dirt resistant.
-Kurt
Dan,
If you are going to go the hot wax route (and for durability and performance reasons you should; ski technique makes no difference, as I will even iron in a layer of base kick wax for longer skis or more abrasive conditions), then a bit of extra $ for a good iron with more precise control over iron base temperature is money well spent; this typically excludes inexpensive household irons that may be suitable for de-wrinkling clothes but are too variable for skis.
Find the melting point of the wax here - http://www.jonsskituning.co.uk/content/view/28/41/
dial in the temperature of the iron and you’re set. For extra insurance, crayon a layer of the wax onto the base before dripping wax onto it with the iron, so the iron is never actually on naked base materials.
Chris
i’m about to dump about $500 to create the waxing universe at the compound (and this is the pro-buy cost). it’s all toko, including that company’s waxing iron. i’m wondering about system 3 v dibloc, maybe i’ll get both, and play with both. the lf line is a lot cheaper than the hf dibloc line.
even back 30 years ago we were hot waxing glide wax outside the kick zone, but, it’s a new world out there. i built a ski shed last year just for this, and, i’m going to build a workshop in there. this, for nordic and alpine both (and for my new world of tele skiing, which is *really *different than it was 30 years ago).
i’m wondering whether a regular vise will work, if i build softer jaws for both alpine and nordic skis. anybody done anything like this? and, i’m wondering how you hot wax out at the race site. are there vises made for portable/modular use?
are there vises made for portable/modular use?
http://www.reliableracing.com/detail.cfm?edp=10995983
Just need a table or bench for these to attach to, and a power supply for the iron.
for a portable table, you can use something like this: http://www.reliableracing.com/detail.cfm?edp=10917581
- Yes, there is a huge difference for skate and classic skis. Skate ski’s are easy; just brush, hotwax, scrape and brush with a wax that matches the snow temp.
Classic skis still need a good glide, but also traction for the kick. Many hot wax the tips as ends as they would skate skis, and leave the section under the bindings for a grippier, classic wax. Some grip wax is for hot melting, some are “corked” into the sole, and some is in gooey tubes (klister) if you need grip in warm, melting conditions.
IMO, SWIX are and has been the R&D gurus in wax science. Always seem to be a season or two ahead of the rest.
dude, not to toot my horn, you’re talking to a guy who paid his way thru college on a nordic ski scholarship. i understand the whole kick wax thing 
but that was in an age long ago, in a galaxy far away.
imagine i’m fran tarkenton, on mars for the last 30 years, just back to earth, and wondering how the whole quarterback thing works nowadays. different helmet, different rules, different defensive schemes. so, i’m trying to get my arms around the whole thing.
i like waxing. i used to cook my own kick waxes. a little yellow, a little violet, a little special blue, a little vanilla extract (just kidding). nailing the wax is a particular delight.
but the waxes today, it seems it’s the glide waxes that’ve really changes a lot. and, in some cases, the equipment to work on them. i’m still trying to remember what it is i used to do.
now, i can tell you exactly how to pine tar a ski with an ash base and hickory edges. interested?
the 3pc vise, you - what? - suspend the ski on the fore and aft pieces, and the middle piece has a rod sits over the bottom of the ski (ski flipped upside down). is that how that works? or does that rode slide through an opening in the binding? i don’t get it.
Think of the rod as you would the rod on your boot. You ski binding snaps into that just like you would clip your boots into your ski. The fore and aft can be spaced out for each particular ski as some skis are longer than others.
chris
okay, i get it now. so, for alpine, which, obviously is a lot less prone to damage from squeezing than a nordic ski, can a regular vise with soft jaws safely hold the ski?
“but wait” - think i - somehow the ski must be held while leaving available the edges for filing, and, to make room for the bindings while gripped by the vise.
basically, i hate buying sport specific tools. i have to pay a fortune, for example, buying taps for bike specific uses, when your typical tap is a fraction of the cost. so, i’m wondering if i can half ass this thing with a regular vise, and custom jaws i will fabricate? perhaps not for nordic? perhaps so for alpine? i don’t know. i need expert help.
I’ve tried all the ski bench options for XC waxing and I still prefer a simple wood form. There are tons of variations on this. It supports the ski for it’s full length and is great for heavy duty scraping and brushing but is XC only. I just clamp mine in a WorkMate and bring the same to a race or use a Swix stand up mount.
oh baby. now THAT is what i call a professional set up! do-it-your-selfing is the way to go, at least in this case. that is so much better than the for-sale nordic vise, esp with all the user comments and enhancements. this is the route i’m going.
is there a good alpine analog to this? specifically, what would your binding attachment look like? i’ve got tele and alpine set ups to mount to this as well. maybe i’ll just figure this out myself and add a comment to the page to which you refer if i find a good solution.
now, i can tell you exactly how to pine tar a ski with an ash base and hickory edges. interested?
whoa—does this bring back memories. at my school in stockholm we had a dinky, dark room (very cave-like) next to the ski storage room. in the workroom there was the bench, the torch, rags, tools—we brought our own base stuff and burned it in. i distinctly remember the high octane smell. but it was a fun time.
peggy
You can get a couple of snow board supports pretty cheap to use with alpine skis. they have a large rubber flat surface with a slot to stand the board/ski on edge. They work well. Since most all-around skis are around 90-100mm under foot these days, an old school ski vise or nordic vise probably wont work.
Dan,
I’ve never taken the time to come up with a good waxing solution for the backcountry/resort boards as I only do a simple wax/scrape of those a few times a season. I could imagine a wider form, perhaps 2 2x8’s sandwiched might work good and allow for edge tuning and the like. Let me know what you come up with and happy skiing!
i’m about to dump about $500 to create the waxing universe at the compound (and this is the pro-buy cost). it’s all toko, including that company’s waxing iron. i’m wondering about system 3 v dibloc, maybe i’ll get both, and play with both. the lf line is a lot cheaper than the hf dibloc line.
Dan that sounds like an pretty good deal. For serious racing, you’ll want both the lf and the hf. Also, don’t be too committed to one brand of wax. Toko and Swix both make excellent waxes (Zipp / HED analog) and are innovators. Other brands mentioned are good too, certain waxes perform better in specific conditions so don’t be afraid to try new stuff. Check out Fast Wax, it is made in MN and less than half the cost of Swix/Toko and in general cheaper than other imports. It took winning some in a raffle for me to try it, but I’ve been happy with it so far. Rex Blue is a great training wax too.
X2 on the Rex Blue. Rex blue is our everyday, never too bad, wax for general training use. I use it for racing also. Though that is the only Rex wax I use. Fast wax white is excellent in very cold conditions. Swix LF4 seems to works quite well over a pretty broad range of temps and is very durable. I’ve not had great luck with the Toko high flouros. However, used them yesterday in 25f temps and was very pleased.
the 3pc vise, you - what? - suspend the ski on the fore and aft pieces, and the middle piece has a rod sits over the bottom of the ski (ski flipped upside down). is that how that works? or does that rode slide through an opening in the binding? i don’t get it.
The ski is upside down (i.e., base up) and supported at the tip and tail by the 2 endpieces. The middle piece has a rod that goes through the binding in the same place that the rod at the end of your ski boot goes through, and locks the ski in place. On the version that I have, the rod in the middle piece ratchets down and then locks. All 3 pieces fit in a bag that’s about 3 x 3 x 6.
but the waxes today, it seems it’s the glide waxes that’ve really changes a lot. and, in some cases, the equipment to work on them. i’m still trying to remember what it is i used to do.
You are right, there have been a lot of changes with the glide waxes - particularly since skating became part of the sport. But the biggest impact of this has been at the elite and high end racing level. At that level, wax choice on the day is critical. What’s more important are how good your skis are and how well they are absorbing and working with the wax that you have chosen( base structure). As I said, for 80% of the skiing I do, I use regular Toko Yellow - for skate or classic glide. Mind you have good skis and I keep the bases in good shape and they have a lot of wax in them( from years of waxing).
The margin of error for most folks on glide waxing is fairly wide. Whereas for kick wax on classic skis, it’s fairly narrow - you either hit it or you don’t and it’s very obvious if you have missed it one way or the other.
These days for skiing here’s how I make the call - if it’s warmer than -2C, ie right around where the classic grip waxing can get a little challenging, I skate. If it’s less than -2C down to -10C, I classic ski grip wax with either Swix Extra Blue( the miracle grip wax) or Toko Red. And off we go.