As any of you who have done, or heard about the Rockman swim know - the “Lifeguard” staff is not worth a shit. We knew this going in. So, what we have done is get the Loves Park Fire Dept Water Rescue, North Park Water Rescue, Rockton Water Rescue and Roscoe Water Rescue boats, and divers in the water. My question to you is…if you see Fire Fighters and thier rescue boats, their divers, their helicopter and their equipment - is that enough? We have Kayaks and the sort from a few places but the end all is infact the Fire/Rescue folks. If you did not have “guards” on a freaking board - would you care?
(yes this is a serious question as I have a meeting Wed about just this)
As you know, Rockman is going to be my first tri ever. I’m only doing the sprint, and I’m nervous about the swim. That said, I feel BETTER with the rescue folks being there than if you have a bunch of teenage “lifeguards” who don’t really know how to save a life. Just my two cents, for what it’s worth.
If you did not have “guards” on a freaking board - would you care
I wouldn’t. Iv’e never been in a race of any distance (that I can remember) that had guards on boards- just boats and kayaks. Sounds to me like you’ve got it covered
That said, I feel BETTER with the rescue folks being there than if you have a bunch of teenage “lifeguards” who don’t really know how to save a life.
As a longtime lifeguard, I feel the opposite. I see firefighters in the water, I see more people that will need rescuing. With that said, I’m the one that trained those teenagers and allowed them to start working, so I trust them, and everyone else just has to trust my judgment.
If they’re not trained in open water lifesaving, I don’t want them out there.
why don’t you hire a local construction and engineering company to construct a walkway for all the triathletes who are “concerned”.
Why swim when you can walk? You will triple the participant numbers.
Or just like they do in Bowling Alleys with the bumpers, daisy chain hundreds of kayaks together with rescue personnel in them of course that way at any given time people can “bump” into them to get going straight or hang on when the water gets in their eyes.
These aren’t your standard “firefighters.” He listed the teams as the water rescue folks, which implies to me rescue divers and swimmers, patrol, and highly trained professionals.
Would your normal teenage kid with open water training be sufficient? Yes, probably. But they will have nowhere near the experience or training the ones Record10 is talking about. I’d be much happier and feel much safer knowing the people responsible for my personal well being (or that of others) have devoted their lives to just that, not merely looking to make $9/hour at a summer job where they can get a tan and check out others in swimwear.
Maybe my understanding of the squads listed isn’t quite right. When I read them, I pictured volunteer-style squads/people that mainly focus on boat rescues. Something such as the coast guard, or even some other emergency water rescue squad, is probably super efficient at pulling victims from the water. They might be great swimmers too. How are they at recognizing when someone is struggling in the water when surrounded by hundreds of other people that are fine? That’s where most water rescue squads fail miserably. In their line of work, all they have to to is swim up to the person and ask - when in doubt, grab them. That doesn’t work in a race with a mob scene.
For example, the Coast Guard’s official protocol in our area is to immediately call us (the lifeguards) whenever there is a report of victims in the water. It’s not because they’re not trained to make water rescues, it’s because they realize that we’re far better.
As for having divers in the water, is it a beach? If so, I would 100% recommend against it. Even the most skilled divers/swimmers are worthless anywhere in the impact zone. I’ll swim at the beach in anything (including hurricanes), but in dive gear, I always have them pull me in/out - you’re not maneuverable.
Some are trained, some aren’t:) At one of our races, one member of the “water safety” crew from the Fire Dept jumped off of their Zodiac boat to assist a swimmer. OUR lifeguards ending up rescuing the “water safety” member:)
I think Dive Teams are great, as long as they’re more about rescue, and not “recovery”, if you catch my drift. We utilize Dive Team, Water Safety personnel on Zodiac boats (good for giving CPR, immediate aid out in the water), lifeguards in kayaks and surfboards (depends on which race. Galveston Beach Patrol uses Surfboards, other races we use kayaks), Marine Patrol Boats with flashing lights to keep other boaters out of the area, and Jetskis with our head lifeguards on. We generally DON’T rely on the “water safety” members for lifeguarding, unless they’ve had the proper training.
Another good idea would be to go to Walmart and buy a bunch of those “noodles”. They’re great to give to each lifeguard, to hold out if a person just needs to rest, but doesn’t need rescuing. That way, the swimmer isn’t tipping over the kayak or surfboard.
I’m a big advocate of the jetskis. We have drivers on them, and then our swim course captains on the back, so they can assist quickly…
You can NEVER have too much support in the water, IMO. I’ve seen the most experienced triathletes have panic attacks in the water, and first-timers breeze right through it. Never know what can happen out there. Honestly, once the athletes are through the swim and the bike, I breathe a sigh of relief.
My concern would be the repercussions if there is a worst case scenario. If someone were to die during the swim-drowning, heart attack, whatever- and you’re sued, would you be able to defend yourself and convince the necessary people that you did everything possible to keep the swim safe? We can all agree you did, but will the non-triathlon people see it the same way?
From your past posts, it sounds like you have a unique, and solid, relationship with your insurer. I would get them on board in this discussion and see what they think. I’m just picturing what the news people (or jury or the deceased persons insurance company) would do if someone died and there were “no lifeguards”. It is quite possible that they would overlook the fact that you had all of the other groups there (regardless if they’re qualified or not), and the headline would read “local man (woman) dies during triathlon-no lifeguards present”.
From an athlete’s perspective, I’m fine with divers, boats, etc. I’m used to just seeing the boats and kayaks. I say ask your insurance. If they’ll back you up, go with the rescue people.
I appreciate that this maybe a issue for the insurance and only your insurance can clarify this. BUT, I feel that people should take responsibility for their actions: if they don’t feel they can swim safely, they should stay in the shallow water. Soon we will all have to wear inflatable life jacket to swim 100m from the shore. End of rant form a not very good swimmer
Rather NOT have them on boards b/c if they can’t handle them very well or what not, they’re more likely to drift into the swimmers’ lines. I did a race once where the person in the kayak wasn’t all that skilled in the kayak and well… ended up causing some people to basically stop in the middle of their swim to get around the kayaker. Kayaker was way out as a boundary, but had drifted b/c of the current and just didn’t realize where they ended up…would think it would be similar with a board.
There are two issues I see here. First, lets consider the real safety issues. Say somebody gets kicked hard at a buoy and is now in trouble, or has a cardiac or asthma attack, or some such thing - how fast can your rescue people identify and respond? I would assume, knowing you, that coverage in the water will be adequate to keep this to a good level. However, if they are spread too thin, then having a responder closer is not a bad idea.
Second issue is what to do with the panic attack, or crappy swimmer that needs a board or kayak to hold on to? Generally I see this as important in the first leg of the swim, but what coverage do you have there? Also, is there enough coverage to handle the off course folks?
Personally I could care less, and lifeguards in our area are usually in canoe or kayak and not boards anyhow. And a bad responder is less than useless. I would trust your judgement.
Speaking as a firefighter with 7 years ocean water lifeguard experience, I would have to say it depends.
Some fire rescue agencies that respond around water are real proficient at water rescue and operating in the water and identifying swimmers in trouble and know how to handle a thrashing person in the water who thinks their dying.
Some do not.
I recommend you go back to the fire rescue folks and ask them some questions about their abilities. You’ll know rapidly if they will be okay.
Me personally, I think you have to have some form of craft out there for the marginal swimmers to grab. Having that feature available alone makes it a better race for them mentally. ( without getting into the whole you shouda prepared yourself issue…)
My 2 cents
That’s one, if you assume triathletes are “proficient swimmers”