http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/look-debut-new-keo-blade-pedal-at-eurobike-23047
I don’t know if there is a real advantage but I love them to little bitty pieces.
Time is coming out with a similar concept–the iClic or something like that. I’m thinking of moving on from my old school Looks, so either the new Keo’s or the Times might be something I will check out.
I really like my Keywin pedals, no moving parts, and a nice secure pedal.
Oh my God it has “carbon fiber” parts…they’ll sell a million of them!! : )
Since I am (literally) grinding through two pairs of Keo Carbons, I appreciate that they put a metal plate right where mine are wearing. What I don’t appreciate is their obsession with cutting weight. They dropped 30-40 grams, but the price is like $500. When is the consumer going to wise up and realize that weight is nearly insignificant? Hopefully, there will be two or three lower models with more weight and a reasonable price tag.
Chad
They don’t look very aero!
But I do like my carbon! 
When is the consumer going to wise up and realize that weight is nearly insignificant?
Then you won’t mind me replacing your current pedals with cinder blocks and sending you off on a 180 Km ride? Rotational inertia much?
The new Keo2Max has the stainless steel plate as well, and those start under $200.
I really like my Keywin pedals, no moving parts, and a nice secure pedal.
Cool! I’ve never seen those before. How do you click in and out? It looks like you put your toes in first, then rotate your heels inwards to get in.
Can you walk in the cleats?
In 2002/3 I paid $5k for what was one of the top-tier bikes, including all the little extras like the brand-new Hed aerobars, Nokon cables, USE seatpost, gee-whiz carbon stem (rare back then), and TWO(!) sets of race wheels…
Today, thanks to things like $500 pedals…it would take something on the order of $15-$20k to buy in at the same level. That’s a 300%+ increase! I make a pretty darn good living…but I’ve been priced right out of that game…unless I want to put a SERIOUS hole in my credit card.
I guess that’s the cost of consumers demanding even more development and engineering. Wind tunnels, CFD, new carbon molds, etc. aren’t cheap.
It’s the stiffness that people crave.
that’s what she said.
Then you won’t mind me replacing your current pedals with cinder blocks and sending you off on a 180 Km ride? Rotational inertia much?
I love myths that won’t die. Here you go:
From Josh, lead engineer at Zipp. He is actually talking about wheels, but it still applies when you are talking about that mythical quality of “rotational inertia.”
When questioned about the competition between Zipp and Mavic, Poertner points out that the companies are really focusing on two different pieces of the market. The story of Mavic wheels is all about weight and rotational inertia, while the story of Zipp wheels is focused on aerodynamics followed by weight, inertia and bearing efficiency.
"The more you look at inertia, inertia’s just a second order phenomenon. It’s just not that important. Aero is THE primary factor of wheel speed. It’s not weight, it’s not inertia, it’s aero. Everything else is obviously huge in terms of nuance, but weight will save you a watt or two. Inertia will save you a fraction of a watt to a watt.
Even if you doubled the weight of the pedals to 400 grams, it would not make any discernible difference in performance. Later in the same article he acknowleges that it is hard selling a heavier, more aero wheel. Why? Weight is measurable and tangible. Aero is not. Consumers continue to demand lighter products made out of carbon fiber because they just don’t get it.
Chad
Even if you doubled the weight of the pedals to 400 grams, it would not make any discernible difference in performance
Well my response was a little tongue in cheek. I think statements like “weight does not at all” are a somewhat hypocritical. For the same price, functionality and durability, no sane - performance oriented - athlete would choose the heavier option.
Also, do you even know how to quantify the difference in angular inertia of a 200 gr. pedal vs a 400 gr. pedal?
I guess that’s the cost of consumers demanding even more development and engineering. Wind tunnels, CFD, new carbon molds, etc. aren’t cheap.
But therein lies the problem. Carbon fiber as a material really only provides a discernible advantage in frames and wheels. Components today are no faster than they were 15 years ago before carbon fiber. Take the Shimano Ultegra pedal they make now. It is still aluminum and weights like 320 grams. If you took the $500 pedal and put it on one side and the Ultegra pedal on the other, I defy anyone to be able to discern the 125 gram difference in weight. Put a PM on your bike and you could not tell either. I added five pounds dead weight once in a test and couldn’t tell with a PM on successive runs. It’s all in the consumers mind.
Chad
Then you won’t mind me replacing your current pedals with cinder blocks and sending you off on a 180 Km ride? Rotational inertia much?
I love myths that won’t die. Here you go:
From Josh, lead engineer at Zipp. He is actually talking about wheels, but it still applies when you are talking about that mythical quality of “rotational inertia.”
When questioned about the competition between Zipp and Mavic, Poertner points out that the companies are really focusing on two different pieces of the market. The story of Mavic wheels is all about weight and rotational inertia, while the story of Zipp wheels is focused on aerodynamics followed by weight, inertia and bearing efficiency.
"The more you look at inertia, inertia’s just a second order phenomenon. It’s just not that important. Aero is THE primary factor of wheel speed. It’s not weight, it’s not inertia, it’s aero. Everything else is obviously huge in terms of nuance, but weight will save you a watt or two. Inertia will save you a fraction of a watt to a watt.
Even if you doubled the weight of the pedals to 400 grams, it would not make any discernible difference in performance. Later in the same article he acknowleges that it is hard selling a heavier, more aero wheel. Why? Weight is measurable and tangible. Aero is not. Consumers continue to demand lighter products made out of carbon fiber because they just don’t get it.
Chad
Umm, if you’re going to try to objectively prove that weight/inertia aren’t significant, you might want to quote someone who isn’t clearly biased towards your own opinion. If it’s part of Zipp’s marketing strategy to focus on aerodynamics as opposed to weight, obviously no one from their company is going to go on record as saying anything other than “aerodynamics are much more important than weight”.
Also, significant or not, rotational inertia is not a mythical quality.
Also, do you even know how to quantify the difference in angular inertia of a 200 gr. pedal vs a 400 gr. pedal?
Nope, and I don’t need to. If I can’t quantify the difference in performance between a 200 gram pedal and a 400 gram pedal out on the road using a power meter then I couldn’t care less what some formula says. I went from the aforementioned 400 gram pedal–the old Shimano Look pedals that Lance used to use–to a 195 gram Time titanium ultralight. Guess what my powermeter said? Nothing. No discernible difference. Which means if there is a performance gain, it is so small it gets lost in the “noise” of other things like wind and road surface.
Chad
**Umm, if you’re going to try to objectively prove that weight/inertia aren’t significant, you might want to quote someone who isn’t clearly biased towards your own opinion. If it’s part of Zipp’s marketing strategy to focus on aerodynamics as opposed to weight, obviously no one from their company is going to go on record as saying anything other than “aerodynamics are much more important than weight”. **
I’ve dug through enough marketing hype over the year and in doing so I’ve learned to weed out the tares from the wheat. Why do I quote Josh in this instance?
- He’s the lead engineer of the company that produces (arguably) the best wheels in the world. Now you might ague for Hed in this case, but third place is a very distance third.
- When what he says makes sense based off my personal experience of testing aero wheels vs. lighter wheels, again it add to his credibility.
- Power meters are a very powerful tool to cut through the marketing and hype. Ride with one long enough and you start to realize that some things are marketing and some are hype.
Choose to believe what you wish, but when companies push a marketing strategy based of lightweight performance I’m going to comment to the contrary based off my personal experience and if the lead engineer of a very well-respected company said it first, well–again, choose to believe what you wish.
Chad
Wow, you must not really believe in “gravity” either.
Here I did it for you.
For a 175mm crank arm length, spinning at 85 rpm we have:
Angular frequency
w = 2(pi)f
w = 2 x 3.14 x 85 (rpm) / 60
w = 8.896 rad/s
case 1: (400 gr pedals = 0.4 Kg)
Inertial
I = mr^2
I = 0.4 x (0.175)^2
I = 0.01225 Kgm^2
Rotational energy
K(rot) = 0.5Iw^2
K(rot) = 0.5 x 0.01225 x (8.896)^2
K(rot) = 0.4847 Joules
Over the course of a 5 hours IM bike leg
P = Kt
P = 0.4847 x 5 * 60 * 60
P = 8725 W
case 2: (200 gr pedals = 0.2 Kg)
Inertial
I = mr^2
I = 0.2 x (0.175)^2
I = 0.006125 Kgm^2
Rotational energy
K(rot) = 0.5Iw^2
K(rot) = 0.5 x 0.006125 x (8.896)^2
K(rot) = 0.2423 Joules
Over the course of a 5 hours IM bike leg
P = Kt
P = 0.2423 x 5 * 60 * 60
P = 4361 W
I’ll take the lighter pedals thank you very much. You don’t notice the difference on the PM because it is not calibrated to measure small differences such as pedal weight difference. As per above, there is a significant difference between the two. I.E.: the energy needed to power a 100 W incandescent light bulb for about 43 seconds. It might seem laughable, but it does make a difference. It’s up to you to decide if that difference is worth the money. I just don’t like uniformed blanket statements like “Inertia will save you a fraction of a watt to a watt.” and “it gets lost in the “noise” of other things like wind and road surface.”
I just don’t like uniformed blanket statements like “Inertia will save you a fraction of a watt to a watt.”
Again, you’ll have to forgive me if I take the word of the lead engineer of a highly successful bicycle company over some numbers you plugged into a formula.
It might seem laughable, but it does make a difference. It’s up to you to decide if that difference is worth the money.
This statement, on the other hand, made sense, which is why I always try to coach newbies away from getting too hung up around the weight of their bike when there are so many things. And for the record, I never said “No difference.” My words were indicernible difference. Meaning even if you tested it, you would not be able to see it. Is it there? Sure.
Chad
P.S. So how much times is “light rider” going to save over the course of his Ironman?