NOTE : I am sorry if this has been covered several times before, I couldn’t find exactly what I needed to hear
despite of searching vigorously.
I am trying to get in the LSD miles in the canadian winter, therefore I bought a Cyclops Fluid2 trainer. I did my first
ride on it yesterday and based on what I had read before, I aimed for one-hour long
aerobic ride at about 100 rpm cadence in HR zone 1 (or lower 2).
Now here is the problem, regardless of my gear selection, I wasn’t able to keep my heart rate in the target zone at all in that cadence.
I found it to be much harder than the road (or even stationary bikes or rollers), where I am normally able
to find a gear combination on my bike that allows me to ride at 100-105 rpm in zone 1 and lower 2.
(I did try to set the resitance to the lowest on the resistance unit).
If you are kind enough to reply, please also bother to tell me about these:
1- regarding LSD rides, is it ok if they are done in lower cadences (80-90) ?
2- I found the aero position on the trainer much more uncomfortable than actual road cycling, I am wondering how you folks are
riding these things for 2+ hours. Any adjustment on the saddle angle or height that might help ?
3- I also own a roller (which is way less boring IMO), but I am not able to ride it in aero position yet,
and the amount of concentration it needs to ride, limits my trainings to less than 45 minutes for now. any ideas
on how to encorporate both of these into a solid winter training plan ?
NOTE : I am sorry if this has been covered several times before, I couldn’t find exactly what I needed to hear
despite of searching vigorously.
I am trying to get in the LSD miles in the canadian winter, therefore I bought a Cyclops Fluid2 trainer. I did my first
ride on it yesterday and based on what I had read before, I aimed for one-hour long
aerobic ride at about 100 rpm cadence in HR zone 1 (or lower 2).
Now here is the problem, regardless of my gear selection, I wasn’t able to keep my heart rate in the target zone at all in that cadence.
I found it to be much harder than the road (or even stationary bikes or rollers), where I am normally able
to find a gear combination on my bike that allows me to ride at 100-105 rpm in zone 1 and lower 2.
(I did try to set the resitance to the lowest on the resistance unit).
If you are kind enough to reply, please also bother to tell me about these:
1- regarding LSD rides, is it ok if they are done in lower cadences (80-90) ?
2- I found the aero position on the trainer much more uncomfortable than actual road cycling, I am wondering how you folks are
riding these things for 2+ hours. Any adjustment on the saddle angle or height that might help ?
3- I also own a roller (which is way less boring IMO), but I am not able to ride it in aero position yet,
and the amount of concentration it needs to ride, limits my trainings to less than 45 minutes for now. any ideas
on how to encorporate both of these into a solid winter training plan ?
Thanks a lot in advance for your help.
100rpm against the relatively ample resistance of a fluid trainer without adequately low gearing is pretty ambitious, not because of the cadence per se but due to the power that’s going to require. Also, most people don’t really ride 100rpm all the time except when they are doing drills to try to improve their cadence. 90 is fine. Riding a trainer is less comfortable than riding on the road - you can’t move around as much, and yet the tendency is to think coasting or even standing up is forbidden. Ride more like you would on the road - stand up, drop the cadence (bigger gear) with whatever frequency you need to keep from getting rump sprung. You can still keep your effort aerobic. “Coast” now and then and relieve some of the pressure and restore the circulation. Long indoor sessions are a compromise - give yourself some slack.
As to incorporating rollers - shouldn’t take long before you can ride them in the aerobars if you want to. To include
the rollers and their benefits into your indoor drudgery, consider warming up and cooling down on the rollers and switching
to the trainer for your (possibly longer) main set, which will allow you to stand and simulate climbing or stretch, and coast if necessary. It should be easier to maintain a relatively higher cadence on the rollers, as the resistance will be significantly lower.
Firstly, long slow distance, so-called “LSD”, has the primary function of establishing a more efficient aerobic system and building base endurance. There are a number of physiological benefits to this basic building block of training.
I think it is hard to escape the correlation between higher cadences and higher heart rates unless you are a very skilled cyclist. If you are like me an LSD ride is done at a cadence of between 74 and 88 r.p.m.s. That is about where I wind up in Zone 1 aerobic training.
Maintaining the aero posture on the trainer is tough and uncomfortable. You are much better off to at least alternate between the base bars and the aerobars. I wouldn’t try to maintain a strictly aero posture while riding the trainer, especially at first. There is a benefit to trying to sustain the aero position for as long as you comfortably can, and hopefully that amount of time will increase as your acclimation to the posture improves trhough better strength and mobility.
I hope that helps. Have a nice holiday (it’s Thanksgiving here in the U.S.).
Have to agree with the previous responses. Don’t worry too much about cadence. If your cadence/intensity need to drop to maintain your heart rate, then do so. You’ll lose the benefits of these types of workouts if your heart rate starts to climb.
As for aero, I’ve been putting in lots of time on the trainer for the first time the last couple of months and I’ve found that my “comfortable” time in the aero position has been steadily going up. At first I couldn’t last for more than a few minutes, but now I can comfortably go for much longer. But I’ll always throw in the occasional stretch. Change gearing (and cadence with it), stand up every once in awhile, keep it interesting.
Moving around is important though - keep comfortable - it’ll help keep you motivated too. If you suffer too much it won’t help to bring you back for your next workout. It’ll be a long winter, make sure you do what will help you get the time and miles in.
Enjoy it as much as you can! And remember, it’ll have huge payoffs come spring…
Thank you all for you responses.
I just wanted to add that on the road I am more comfortalbe with a leg turnonver around 98-103.
I feel like I am facing less friction on the same gear than when the cadence is somewhat lower.
Would riding with a different cadence on the trainer for an entier season change my normal style
on the road? I know that the whole cadence idea is thoroughly discussed before, so sorry if this is
boring for most of you.
something off topic: when I was watching IM Kona race this year, whenever the camera
was on Norman Stadler, all I did was counting his cadencewell, the only sport that I watch on TV
is soccer and I gotta do something to make it interesting :). He was pretty much around 90 all the time.
There has been a school of thought since (and even before) Armstrong’s recovery from cancer and subsequent Tour vistories that as far as cadence is concerned, higher is always better.
Absolutely not so.
I would suggest each person has a personal cadence that is the convergence of greatest efficiency in terms of heart rate, power output, aerodynamics and comfort. After four years of Computrainer rides I consistently got my best performances at 88 RPMs average cadence. That is a good bit slower than the “Lance/Carmichael” school of thought that is always well above 90 RPMs or even 95 RPMs.
For some people a slower cadence (85-90 RPMs) may be the most economical. It’s individual. If you have means of collecting accurate speed/power/heart rate/cadence data such as a Computrainer you can easily create a littel database of your best performances on a given course. That will yield some answers about what you best cadence range may be.
There has been a school of thought since (and even before) Armstrong’s recovery from cancer and subsequent Tour vistories that as far as cadence is concerned, higher is always better…
I would suggest each person has a personal cadence that is the convergence of greatest efficiency in terms of heart rate, power output, aerodynamics and comfort…
I’ve got to agree with Tom. Great observations. I often wonder if Lance hadn’t come along if the dogma would instead be “Spinning is for wimps with chicken legs. Grind that big gear and be a man like Jan…”
Actually, the studies that are being regurgitated here as personal opinions are Foss and Hallen’s in 2004 and 2005 and Mora-Rodriguez et al.’s 2006 study on optimal cadence. Both studies showed a nominal difference in efficiency and power at cadences between 80 and 110 and suggested that optimal cadence is different for every individual. The only thing that changed with an increased cadence was the inevitable higher heart rate. What the studies DID prove is that the “less than scientific” advice that I have used and has been given for longer than I’ve been racing bikes (over 25 years) still obtains, if your legs are burning you are pedaling too slow, and if your lungs are burning you are pedaling too fast. Using someone else’s cadence is like using someone else’s underwear, it may look right to the people watching, but it will never feel right to you. Find the cadence that works best for you and stick with it.
My impression of the lon slow rides is that the idea is to work your cardio vascular system to get used to operating at a lower HR which would help your body either work more efficiently at those lower HRs later, or return to lower HRs quicker after going hard on hills or a sprint or something. That said, as pretty much everyone else has said, I wouldn’t worry about the cadence, and would worry more about your level of exertion or HR. There are other types of rides you would do to work your turnover and leg endurance/strength.
All that said, even in the Canadian winter, I hope you’re not writing off outdoor training. I spent a lot of time on my mountain bike in the snow in New England a couple years ago, and I think it really paid off, both in fitness level, and in keeping me motivated during the winter, which the trainer really doesn’t do.
Okay, my 2 cents (US): If you want to spin at the rpm and keep your HR down, get a bigger cogset! Also, if you’re uncomfortable in the aero position on the trainer, you’re road experience (comfort) is probably not optimal either. By that I mean, the trainer more quickly and clearly shows positioning flaws, from a comfort standpoint, than does the road. Work to find a more comfortable position whilst on the trainer and then take it to the road for verification.
I also ride rollers instead of a trainer due mainly to many many long boring vegetative winters in the basement during my bike racing days, but if doing lsd rides on a trainer is your only choice, here are some things I have learned.
Pay no attention to speed, Ride at the cadence that works best for you and keep your HR where you want it regardless of your pace. A lsd on the road of 16-21 mph may be replicated on a trainer at as little as 13-14 mph, depending on the trainer and the amount of air in your tires.
To prevent, or at least delay “trainer discomfort”, stand up. Stand up for several seconds every 5 minutes. As you ride on the road, the terrain makes you change the force applied to the pedals which changes the weight you put on the saddle. On a trainer, the constant resistance makes you put more and consistent pressure on the saddle, cutting blood flow to the area and causing almost everyone more discomfort than riding on the road.
You will probably get a better strength workout on a trainer, but the benefits of riding rollers are a better, smoother, and more efficient pedal stroke. For me, the trainer is for shorter workouts with more intensity, and the rollers are more for my lsd rides.
Keep in mind Long Slow Distance rides are that. A 1hr ride on the trainer isn’t an LSD ride. 2-3hrs at around 70% of max is more the deal. You’ll get used to being on the trainer for a while, but it does get uncomfortable and no one’s saying you can’t get off and stretch! Of course you can add a little “time” to your effort on the trainer because of the lack of coasting as well. Like the others say, don’t mind the cadence go with what works for you. The whole high cadence “Lance” thing was developed more as a recovery device because he lost so much muscle post cancer and as a Grand tour racer he couldn’t afford dead legs after pushing a huge gear. He only did this (high cadence) during TT’s and climbing attacks and it seemed to work for him. Even his first tour win was a lower cadence and in the old days he was a gear masher. Go with what feels best!!! Good luck.
-HWM