Cyclingnews is running the new Zipp stuff shown at Eurobike story today and states the new Super 9 disc will fit the P4. I recall a recent thread where the word was it still won’t run in the P4. Is there any official word out there?
Cyclingnews is running the new Zipp stuff shown at Eurobike story today and states the new Super 9 disc will fit the P4. I recall a recent thread where the word was it still won’t run in the P4. Is there any official word out there?
If you have the money to afford both, just order them and test it out.
Cyclingnews is running the new Zipp stuff shown at Eurobike story today and states the new Super 9 disc will fit the P4. I recall a recent thread where the word was it still won’t run in the P4. Is there any official word out there?
If you have the money to afford both, just order them and test it out.
my thoughts exactly.
depends, how hard do you sprint, and how flexy is the super 9
time will tell - even shaving the P4 brake pads down may not help with the chainstay clearance
.
Here is what was written about it
Zipp will add yet another tool in its already well-stocked aero chest with the introduction of the new Super-9 rear disc wheel for 2010. In contrast to the bulging multi-profile Sub-9, the Super-9 is essentially pan flat, measuring a still-thick 27.5mm wide throughout before smoothly stepping down to 23mm at the tubular tire bed.
According to Zipp marketing manager Andy Paskins, the Super-9’s extra thickness makes it nearly as aero as the Sub-9 but offers a stiffer and more responsive ride that is better suited to shorter and more intense courses where comfort is less of a priority. In addition, the narrower width will address the fitment issues that cropped up with the Sub-9 on some frames such as the Cervélo P4 and S3.
Claimed weight is just 995g – 3g lighter than the Sub-9.
Sounds like it would work. Like to see pricing.
But in this statement Josh indicates it will not work with a P4.
"The Super-9 disc is NOT lenticular. They key to the sub9 is the way the rim shape blends to the tire. The bulge in the rim is there to accomplish this shape, but also to provide some compliance to keep the wheel from being too harsh. The sub9 is still the ultimate long course wheel because it is comfortable and rides like a spoked wheel. Super9 has a similar transition to the tire bed, that was created by laser scanning actual tires to generate 3D models to design around. From about 40mm in from the brake track, the wheel is flat…there is no concavity in the shape. Aerodynamically it is almost identical to the sub9, slightly better in some frames and at higher yaw angles where the concavity on the sub9 causes some additional drag on the rear half of the wheel, but more importantly, it is mush stiffer than any disc we’ve ever made, and yet at 27.5mm wide, it is narrow enough to work in all current TT bikes except the P4, where the brakes just won’t open wide enough. And it has tested faster than Jens favorite disc in the tunnel with bike and with bike and rider… ****
wear the p4 pads down a bit
=)
.
I think it might work if you shave the pads. On the sub-9, the bulge actually hit some of the braking hardware. But on all of the Zipp tubular wheels (except the 900, IIRC), the brake track is extremely wide. When I compare my 1080 tubular to my 1080 clincher for example in terms of pad spacing, I ALWAYS have to adjust the cable at the anchor; just the barrel adjuster is not enough. So I think that is probably what the problem is here. If you shave down the pads, you should be fine. But you will have to do that. Even folks running 808 tubulars seem to have to do that. But once you have your shaved pads, then it should be no big deal.
interesting. i had to shave down my cork pads on my 1080 tubie with the '09 DA to get it to fit (08 D/A brake). You are running a SRAM rear brake, yes? Any shaving to be done to get your disc in there?
I am actually running an Oval A900 brake back there. You can’t fit a SRAM brake back there. I may replace with a ZG or something lighter, but we’ll see. With the A900, there is no shaving needed. You actually need to shim the pads IN because it can’t close tight enough with clinchers to actually engage (one of the arms hits the frame).
I contacted zipp about this. The zipp super 9 is 23mm width at the brakes and max 27,5 mm. According to the max. possible dimensions on the cervelo website (24,5mm brake and 27,5 max) the super 9 should fit. But it does not always fit, sometimes is does, sometimes it doesn’t…
According to zipp it has to do with the variance in the location of the brake bosses, the brake itself, and the alignment of the P4 frame to guarantee that it works. This means that in many P4’s the Super9 will work great, but they just cannot guarantee it even though the Super9 is over 1mm narrower than the sub9, it just isn’t narrow enough to guarantee the fitment in ALL P4’s. Heavy shaving and shaping of the brake pads might help in some cases. The inside of the brake pads only opens to 27mm, and the disc achieves the full 27.5mm width just 15mm below the rim edge, or about 3mm below the bottom edge of the brake pad.
The P4 might turn out to be a useless flop. Sure the design is great. But the water bottle situation isn’t ideal for anything other then aerodynamics.
now the rear wheel problem…
No good having a frame that saves you 15 seconds over 40k if you can’t put the fastest wheels in it! It might actually just be as good as having a “slower” frame with “faster” wheels. So save the money on expensive frame and get fastest wheels which are the same cost as the wheels that will fit anyway…?
maybe,…?
The zipp sub9 and super 9 might turn out to be useless flops.
Sure the design is great, but the shape isn’t ideal for anything other than aerodynamics.
Now the P4 problem
No good having a wheel that saves you 5 seconds if you can’t put it on the best frame!
The P4 might turn out to be a useless flop. Sure the design is great. But the water bottle situation isn’t ideal for anything other then aerodynamics.
now the rear wheel problem…
No good having a frame that saves you 15 seconds over 40k if you can’t put the fastest wheels in it! It might actually just be as good as having a “slower” frame with “faster” wheels. So save the money on expensive frame and get fastest wheels which are the same cost as the wheels that will fit anyway…?
maybe,…?
I am actually running an Oval A900 brake back there. You can’t fit a SRAM brake back there. I may replace with a ZG or something lighter, but we’ll see. With the A900, there is no shaving needed. You actually need to shim the pads IN because it can’t close tight enough with clinchers to actually engage (one of the arms hits the frame).
Jordan, when Matt Simkins comes out with his aero brake soon, you might want to try one of those back there. It’s not going to do much for your aerodynamics, but it’s compact size and small offset arm might be ideal for that type of application. Just a thought…
The zipp sub9 and super 9 might turn out to be useless flops.
Sure the design is great, but the shape isn’t ideal for anything other than aerodynamics.
Now the P4 problem
No good having a wheel that saves you 5 seconds if you can’t put it on the best frame!
The P4 might turn out to be a useless flop. Sure the design is great. But the water bottle situation isn’t ideal for anything other then aerodynamics.
now the rear wheel problem…
No good having a frame that saves you 15 seconds over 40k if you can’t put the fastest wheels in it! It might actually just be as good as having a “slower” frame with “faster” wheels. So save the money on expensive frame and get fastest wheels which are the same cost as the wheels that will fit anyway…?
maybe,…?
You both are operating under the assumption that a “shaped” disc is faster in that frame (if it fit)…which might not be the case…
Any news on whether it will fit or not (will the brake open wide enough? Don’t care about shaving the pads, just wondering if it will clear the brake itself)
Any news on whether it will fit or not (will the brake open wide enough? Don’t care about shaving the pads, just wondering if it will clear the brake itself)
The last conversation I had with Zipp was “we don’t think so.” But they hadn’t actually put one in a P4 yet.
I’ve been having an e-mail dialog with Damon Rinard at Cervelo regarding various rear wheels and the P4. By coincidence, he mentioned that he had a chance to try a Super 9 in a P4 just yesterday. Apparently it clears the chainstays just fine. Brake clearance is an issue. He said that the brake pads will need to be cut down (he actually uses a hacksaw) and beveled to match the off-parallel braking surface. He hadn’t tested it on the road, but he said he felt that, with the brake pad modifications, the Super 9 would work fine in a P4.
Is there any wind tunnel data, zipp or otherwise, available comparing the super 9 to the sub 9? Searched using google, checked zipp web site and searched forum and did not see anything.
I’ve been having an e-mail dialog with Damon Rinard at Cervelo regarding various rear wheels and the P4. By coincidence, he mentioned that he had a chance to try a Super 9 in a P4 just yesterday. Apparently it clears the chainstays just fine. Brake clearance is an issue. He said that the brake pads will need to be cut down (he actually uses a hacksaw) and beveled to match the off-parallel braking surface. He hadn’t tested it on the road, but he said he felt that, with the brake pad modifications, the Super 9 would work fine in a P4.
I called Zipp, they claim that even with the pads shaved, no dice, the disc still tends to hit the chainstays
This question was answered by Cervelo last Feb - benefits of the Sub 9 on a P4 are negligible, and since the aerodynamics of the Sub 9 and Super 9 are the same, this statement may also apply to the Super 9 on a P4
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=2207359;search_string=sub%209;#2207359