I think a better idea is to post " breath as you swim or bad things may happen " Then just let people decide.
We are blessed with the Woodlawn preserve and BCSP, to be sure…
Now that we’re about to run out of evening daylight hours, however, I’ll be using that room more and more. At least there are new treadmills as part of the annual equipment upgrade…
That rule sucks! How are the pervy old men going to sneak underwater peeks at the young women without getting caught now? There’s already the snorkel and mask approach but that one’s been pretty well outed at my pool.
Part of in addition to the risk of the CO2 accumulation risks as mentioned, is also the annoyance factor for the lifeguards.
If you were a lifeguard, it might freak you out if the 13 year old kid who is actually a good swimmer, is doing full-length underwater sets. Make it a person who swims slow underwater, and the false alarm factor goes up a lot. I think this is probably the bigger factor than the CO2 risk - you don’t want lifeguards getting used to seeing people underwater for 30+ seconds at a time as ‘normal’ in pool used by a range of swimmers from nonswimmers to experts.
If your pool was ONLY used by strong swimmers (we’ve got a big pool around here that’s near-exclusively for competitive swim teams and masters groups), I doubt you’d see that rule.
SWBO is REAL!
I am a swim coach. It can happen when a person is going for a goal, like to beat someone else, or to go a 25 or a 50 (or more) underwater. I have seen it myself. This is not to be taken lightly.
I’m sure a lot of lifeguards have never seen it (some have).
What happens is you black-out, but your arms and legs keep moving. But not providing propulsion. So the person comes to a complete stop, arms and legs still moving.
If someone does not know this fact, they may think the person is still conscious.
If you see this, the person is “out” and needs to get above water ASAP!
Seen it. Scary shit right there…
I think a better idea is to post " breath as you swim or bad things may happen " Then just let people decide.
Wait. What? I’m supposed to breathe while swimming? Since when?
Has anyone told Jason Lezak about this rule?
I get so confused. I want to pass out.
Brian
I am one of those guy’s who has brought up SWBO. Maybe because I am around the water and Ocean nearly every day and see this happen with people who have the attitude “It will never happen to me”. Or the people who do stupid things like breath holding after hyperventilating because they saw someone else do it and decided they would too. Just so you know…there is ZERO signs when it occurs. You just black out. End of story and lights out!
Can’t wait for you to experience SWBO! And hopefully there is a lifeguard there that REALLY knows CPR.
In case you haven’t really thought about it…If no one ever died from this, there would be no such thing as SWBO.
And I HIGHLY doubt you are in better shape than ANY Olympic athlete. (Maybe the Curler’s, but who knows?)
Lol bro report back once you can bust out a duffy lap under water. 50yd in a 25yd pool is fairly easy, but 50m in a 50m pool is pretty damn tough
Got about 40-45 on the second attempt. Had a good send off. Forgot to time it but I’d guess around 1:15-1:30?
Funny thing is we hypoxic sets today.
I am one of those guy’s who has brought up SWBO. Maybe because I am around the water and Ocean nearly every day and see this happen with people who have the attitude “It will never happen to me”. Or the people who do stupid things like breath holding after hyperventilating because they saw someone else do it and decided they would too. Just so you know…there is ZERO signs when it occurs. You just black out. End of story and lights out!
Can’t wait for you to experience SWBO! And hopefully there is a lifeguard there that REALLY knows CPR.
In case you haven’t really thought about it…If no one ever died from this, there would be no such thing as SWBO.
And I HIGHLY doubt you are in better shape than ANY Olympic athlete. (Maybe the Curler’s, but who knows?)
Breath holding is something I do in training (not for triathlon). I have blacked out numerous times. I have a fairly good grasp of when it is going to happen. There are signs.
I don’t think being “in better shape” than a curler has much impact on breath holding. It’s mostly mental. Just try to make yourself pass out. There is no greater instinct than the desire to breathe.
I rarely do these exercises in water. I am not stupid. I also have too much respect for life guards and paramedics too purposely impose myself on them. They have enough to do.
I just have a negative gut reaction to any sort of maternalistic harping on an individual who might do something stupid. I say let the stupid be stupid.
I always try to imagine the individual happenings that lead to some of the signs at my YMCA like “no shaving in the sauna or whirpool” or “swim suits must be worn in sauna”.
Or “Hair dryer to be used for hair on head only.”
Okay, I try NOT to imagine what lead to that rule.
…or signs there should be.
“Don’t lay your junk on the sink.”
I say let the stupid be stupid.
It’s called natural selection.
Look up “shallow water blackout.” It’s no joke.
There’s a US navy wide rule against this at recreational pools as well. I see a similar sign before I go into the navy pools I have been to.
I think that sign also says something about hyperventilating before swimming, they will stop you there even before you start to swim.
The hyperventilation is really where the added risk comes in. It doesn’t add more oxygen to your blood but it does apparently help you get the CO2 levels in your lungs lower than normal, making shallow water blackout a risk. In this case, the urge to breathe, caused by the CO2 levels doesn’t make you pop up before the lower O2 levels make you black out.
Shallow water blackout should never be an issue in a pool, which is far too shallow. SWBO happens when someone dives to a depth that significantly raises their oxygen partial pressure (PPO2). Due to the higher PPO2, you don’t feel the need to breathe as soon (and hyperventilating enhances this effect), and then as you begin to surface your PPO2 drops rapidly, starving the brain of oxygen and hence the blackout. I really don’t see how you could ever get deep enough in a normal pool for this to be a concern.
-David
If you were a lifeguard, it might freak you out if the 13 year old kid who is actually a good swimmer, is doing full-length underwater sets. Make it a person who swims slow underwater, and the false alarm factor goes up a lot. I think this is probably the bigger factor than the CO2 risk - you don’t want lifeguards getting used to seeing people underwater for 30+ seconds at a time as ‘normal’ in pool used by a range of swimmers from nonswimmers to experts.
I suspect that this is the real reason for the ban.
I am one of those guy’s who has brought up SWBO. Maybe because I am around the water and Ocean nearly every day and see this happen with people who have the attitude “It will never happen to me”. Or the people who do stupid things like breath holding after hyperventilating because they saw someone else do it and decided they would too. Just so you know…there is ZERO signs when it occurs. You just black out. End of story and lights out!
Can’t wait for you to experience SWBO! And hopefully there is a lifeguard there that REALLY knows CPR.
In case you haven’t really thought about it…If no one ever died from this, there would be no such thing as SWBO.
And I HIGHLY doubt you are in better shape than ANY Olympic athlete. (Maybe the Curler’s, but who knows?)
I can’t wait either. See this is why I wear a cap when I go down to the bottom of my wife, I mean pool. That way someone can find me. Does the ‘W’ in SWBO stand for water or wife?
I guess this guy would be kicked out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qDRdzrONy0
4 minutes single breath swim.
Shallow water blackout should never be an issue in a pool, which is far too shallow. SWBO happens when someone dives to a depth that significantly raises their oxygen partial pressure (PPO2). Due to the higher PPO2, you don’t feel the need to breathe as soon (and hyperventilating enhances this effect), and then as you begin to surface your PPO2 drops rapidly, starving the brain of oxygen and hence the blackout. I really don’t see how you could ever get deep enough in a normal pool for this to be a concern.
-David
I can’t believe I’m defending he hall monitors on this. Your post is so wrong in a couple of ways. If you’re joking then I’m not sophisticated enough to get it.
First, SWBO is just that. Shallow Water Blackout. You don’t even need to be under water at all (it’s just that it’s dangerous when in water). As I have stated in a previous post I have blacked out many times from holding my breath, NEVER IN THE WATER! I’ve done it on my couch. I’ve done it on a spin bike. I’ve done it laying in bed.
Second, partial pressure concentration issues only occur when you are breathing compressed air at depth (scuba diving). These free dive world record guys sometimes use compressed air and run into issues related to that. One of the problems is O2 toxicity. Over a certain depth the concentration of O2 is so great it becomes lethal. Fortunately, this happens at a depth greater than you can use normal compressed air due to the nitrogen problems. But that’s all useless info here.
Bottom line, you can pass (and I have done so) pass out without water and it is certainly possible in a pool.
Again, if you were joking, sorry.
SWBO is REAL!
I am a swim coach. It can happen when a person is going for a goal, like to beat someone else, or to go a 25 or a 50 (or more) underwater. I have seen it myself. This is not to be taken lightly.
I’m sure a lot of lifeguards have never seen it (some have).
What happens is you black-out, but your arms and legs keep moving. But not providing propulsion. So the person comes to a complete stop, arms and legs still moving.
If someone does not know this fact, they may think the person is still conscious.
If you see this, the person is “out” and needs to get above water ASAP!
Seen it. Scary shit right there…
Saw this in 1970 when four of us “competitive” swimmers were trying to see who could go the farther with one breath. The last guy (of course) made it 75 yds and then just stopped and seemed to circle. We thought he was showing off and fortunately the life guard dove in and pulled him out. Pool manager comes running out of the office and grabs him by the stomach and gives a couple of heaves. Buddy pukes up a bunch of water and gasps for air, blood running out his nose. Scary shit for a bunch of 14yr olds. I never have pushed it since.
I think where you are off base is that it isn’t lack of oxygen that makes you feel the need to breathe. It is buildup of co2 that gives you that need to breathe.
So, combine that with the fact that hyperventilation gets rid of CO2 quite effectively; and you get the mismatch. The mismatch is where you run out of O2, or that the partial pressure of O2 gets too low before the CO2 buildup causes you to surface and get more air.
The depth issue makes it worse because as you say, as you surface the partial pressure of O2 drops even further. But the depth changes aren’t necessary for it to occur.
Here is the real reason you shouldn’t go under water at all…because this rule isn’t enforce:
.