I’m doing IM Lake Placid in 2 weeks, and obsessing over what shoes to wear. I’m targeting a 3:30 marathon (8 min/mile).
My primary shoe for the last several years is the Ravanna 9. I bought like 10 pairs when discontinued in 2018 and they’ve served me well. My last remaining pair at home is shot, though I think I have a low mileage pair at my summer house. I’ve experimented with Ravanna 9 replacements (Ravanna 11 and Launch GTS) and they suck. They just feel stiff and dead and don’t have the energy return of the 9.
I want to love the Nike 4% and Next%, and they’ve worked fine for shorter races (5K and 10K PR in them), but I did two HIMs in them in 2019 and by mile 8 or 9 had severe foot / arch pain (pushed through, but it sucked) and ended up with Achilles tendonitis after one race and sprained my ankle at mile 10 of the other (too much stack). So I’m definitely not wearing them for a marathon.
Last weekend I tested out the new Saucony Endorphin Pro 2. WOW! The PEBAX foam and carbon plate felt like the Next% but feel much more supportive. I did the last 3 miles of my long run Sunday wearing them and they felt good and were 30-40 sec per mile faster at the same HR and RPE.
Here are my options:
Run in a 3 year old 100-ish mile pair of Ravanna 9s at my summer house. They were feeling okay in a recent tempo run. Will need to have our caretaker ship them to me or something.
Saucony Endorphin Pro 2 – It’s a gamble. I don’t really have any “long” runs left. I have a 60-min run with some race-pace work Thursday. I was thinking that would be a good 6-7 mile test run. I’m thinking if they feel good for that, I can wear the Endorphins for the Ironman and leave an old pair of my Ravanna 9s in my special needs bag in the event the Endorphins are causing problems. But those are pretty shot too (like 500 miles). Or is it just too risky?
I personally would have that person ship the shoes to me and then continue to test the new shoes. If they feel good up to your IM, then I would go with the new ones
I personally would have that person ship the shoes to me and then continue to test the new shoes. If they feel good up to your IM, then I would go with the new ones
Go with the Sauc Pro2. You like how they run and is more supportive than the Nikes.
Worst thing that happens is post-race arch discomfort from not running with the plate a ton. But at that point, you’re done! Who cares if your foot is sore after an Ironman.
The endorphins are a great shoe, and much faster than the ravenas. Go with option 2; you can swap out to the tried and true if the endorphins start to become an issue.
If you’ve raced in carbon plated shoes in the past and became injured then the carbon plate might just be too much for your foot. The Saucony Endorphin Speed is same construction as the Pro just without the carbon plate. Very responsive, the toe-off is great & kind to the foot. Equal benefits for us slower runners. Just a thought.
If you’ve raced in carbon plated shoes in the past and became injured then the carbon plate might just be too much for your foot. The Saucony Endorphin Speed is same construction as the Pro just without the carbon plate. …
Are they literally the exact same other than the plate? I had a pair of speeds for a while, and then I tried on a pair of pro’s, same size, ran a couple of km’s and they felt noticeably narrower in the mid-foot, I couldn’t use them.
If you’ve raced in carbon plated shoes in the past and became injured then the carbon plate might just be too much for your foot. The Saucony Endorphin Speed is same construction as the Pro just without the carbon plate. Very responsive, the toe-off is great & kind to the foot. Equal benefits for us slower runners. Just a thought.
I actually bought both the Speeds and the Pros. Ran 3 miles in each (last 6 miles of my long run Sunday). I actually preferred the carbon plate Pros. The Speeds were pretty soft and I felt my arch collapsing. I expected to want to run the IM in the Speeds as I expected it to be the more supportive shoe, but the Pros actually felt more supportive. It’s like the carbon plate helps control the PEBAX foam or something.
Anyhow thanks all for the tips. My plan is going to be to do a few runs in the Endorphin Pros and meanwhile get the Ravanna from summer shipped as a backup in case the Endorphins aren’t working out. If they feel good after a couple more test runs, I’ll keep the old Ravannas stashed in Special Needs bag in the event things go south on race day.
Last weekend I tested out the new Saucony Endorphin Pro 2. WOW! The PEBAX foam and carbon plate felt like the Next% but feel much more supportive. I did the last 3 miles of my long run Sunday wearing them and they felt good and were 30-40 sec per mile faster at the same HR and RPE.
I’d wear the Saucony Endorphin Pro 2 every run for the next 10 days or so to make sure you aren’t getting any blisters or hot spots. If no issues, I’d go with those for the race. In the mean time, have your newer pair of Ravannas sent to you in case the Endorphin ends up causing you issues.
I disagree - you’re going to wreck your arch running on a carbon plate this much out of the blue. These shoes aren’t easy on your feet.
I nkow we are evne closer now- but I would even suggest taking a “step down” and getting a pair of the endorphin speeds (on sale for $120 and my favorite shoe overall). The nylon plate still gives a little pop, but the shoes is so much easier on your feet. And at 8 min/mile pace, you’re not really running as fast as the pro is designd for. N=1, but I feel like the end. pro “work” best at 7:15 or faster pace.
Endorphin speed is the perfect ironman shoe IMO, light, responsive with a bit of pop, but softer and easier on the foot and ankles. (unless you’re running a sub 3:10ish marathon) I didn’t feel like the shoe needed a break-in period, either.
Big fan of the Endorphin Pro’s and using them as my current training shoe… currently race in the Alpahfly’s… and was training in Vaporfly’s after a little dance with Plantar Fasciitis. I find the Endorphin Pro’s to be really amazing and the upper quality vs. the Nike’s aren’t even close. I’m definitely switching over to the Saucony Endorphin line for now.
I’d run that 60 minute run in the EP’s and if all is well, I’d use them for sure. You could toss your other shoes in your special needs but I think the EP’s are going to be fine.
Have you tried eBay it looks like they have all male(?) sizes from 7.5 and up?
Don’t be afraid of buying used. I run in Newton Gravity and buy used shoes all the time. Usually they are running store demo models on ones where the person decided that running wasn’t for them.
Are they literally the exact same other than the plate? I had a pair of speeds for a while, and then I tried on a pair of pro’s, same size, ran a couple of km’s and they felt noticeably narrower in the mid-foot, I couldn’t use them.
The speeds have a nylon plate and slightly different shoe volume. The pro’s have a carbon plate and slightly more overall volume. I found the speeds to be tighter than the pros as have a lot of customers. That hasn’t stopped a ton of customers from buying both
I actually did a bit of A/B testing on the track this morning with Next % vs the Endorphin pro’s.
I’ve also done A/B testing with the Endorphin pros vs the Hyperion tempos (which I really, really like for a go fast shoe). The Endorphins were faster vs the tempos. I was a very sad person bc I wanted the endorphin pro’s to be only as fast or slower.
IMO the Hyperion tempos are a faster shoe than the launch GTS/Ravenna or Launch since that is the launch GTS minus the guiderails.
The 1 thing I noticed after racing in the Endorphin pro’s is my legs weren’t as beat up as previous seasons when I raced in Asics DS Trainer’s 22 & 23.
I also haven’t run as fast in the Endorphin pro’s as the DS trainers but I also 1. haven’t raced more than 1x since Oct 2019 2. think running sub 1:30 off the bike is in my past not my future…sigh it was good while it lasted…also Don’t get old(er) ← the #1 strategy to staying fast right there
Are they literally the exact same other than the plate? I had a pair of speeds for a while, and then I tried on a pair of pro’s, same size, ran a couple of km’s and they felt noticeably narrower in the mid-foot, I couldn’t use them.
The speeds have a nylon plate and slightly different shoe volume. The pro’s have a carbon plate and slightly more overall volume. I found the speeds to be tighter than the pros as have a lot of customers. That hasn’t stopped a ton of customers from buying both
Thanks. Who knows, maybe the speeds I had, had become a little stretched out in the upper, causing the new pros I tried to feel tighter…