nice box arrived this morning.
got some new stuff to test out…
g
Is this the same concept as side mounted pedals, except they drop the platform below a very short axle, to virtually induce a very low stack height?
I can’t see anything, picture is too small 
.
It looks like they would effectively increase the length of your crank arms as well.
Was that your intention? Or did you factor that in and order shorter cranks?
8% improvement…sweet:-)
.
Whatever those things are, they appear to have really impressed the Lego man at the top of the pic. Knocked him flat on his back.
You need to learn up on your toys…
That is a playmobile pirate
G
playmobile
Isn’t that Playmobil?? Sorry, the pic was fuzzy.
Edit - you are right, I should have known. Lego man’s feet are completely different from Playmobil Pirates, Policemen, Firemen, etc.
Actually it appears this setup won’t increase overall crank length because at TDC the pedal platform would also be lower than the spindal CL, as it is at BDC. So the same crank rotation diameter/length is maintained. What increases is the distance from seat to pedal platform, while keeping seat to stem relationship the same. Right, or am I missing something…
Actually, since the pedal platform will always be lower than the conventional platform at all points of the pedal stroke, you need to lower your saddle…and likely your stem. Your entire body should sit closer the ground for the same “cleat to seat” distance.
I think you are right. The radius of the pedal stroke will be the same so the crank arm length will effectively be the same… Euhm, provided the cleat and shoe is level throughout the whole pedal stroke.
I’m not sure if there would be a gain from this set up and if so, why.
Sindre
I’m assuming this setup is for someone who has longer legs than arms, hence the need for more length seat to pedal, not seat to stem…AND also doesn’t want to be cramped at TDC when using longer crank arms with standard pedals.
This setup should minimize the rocking torque caused by the cleat+pedal stack of a traditional system. If you don’t believe how much stack you have beteen the centre line of the axle and the top of the cycling shoe sole, next time you are standing around after a race with your racing flats, hop on your bike and you will be shocked to see the seat feels “high” .This is because there is less stack wearing your racing flats than cycling shoes+cleats. This system makes it looks like they put the sole of your foot in line with the virtual centreline of the crank (not sure if I am explaining this well). If you don’t believe there is benefit, do the inverse and add two extra look cleats under your existing look cleat and see how awkward and tippy you feel and how much power you loose trying to stabilize all the stack from tipping over on each stroke (well, it really never tips over, but it just makes the platform less stable).
Dev
Seems to me like this wouldn’t change your hip/torso angle or thigh/rib cage clearance at all, as your crank length is effectively the same. This would just lower your saddle height by the difference in stack height between this pedal and your old pedal.
Changing to a shorter crank would increase your thigh/rib cage clearance by double the difference in crank length, assuming you raise your saddle to keep your knee angle the same.
Greg- do those pedals/cleat allow for any float?
Bjorn has been using those pedals for a little while now and has really liked them.
Seems to me like this wouldn’t change your hip/torso angle or thigh/rib cage clearance at all, as your crank length is effectively the same. This would just lower your saddle height by the difference in stack height between this pedal and your old pedal.
Changing to a shorter crank would increase your thigh/rib cage clearance by double the difference in crank length, assuming you raise your saddle to keep your knee angle the same.
Greg- do those pedals/cleat allow for any float?
Hi, I work for the US distributor for Vista.
The above comments are correct.
Check your stack height difference and lower your saddle by that amount.
Also check your stem/saddle height, as that will have changed.
On a normal road bike (roughly a 72-74deg seat angle), by moving your saddle down you also moved it forward and for taller people unless they have very short legs it’s moved them forward the right amount, for the short of femur, you may have to also move your saddle forward, remember that any movement of this sort then changes your reach. Typically this does not result in the need for a stem change.
This may seem complicated, but it will take more time to clean your bike than make these changes.
The only way you will scrape a pedal is to try peddaling through corners that you probably shouldn’t be no matter what system you use, typically you will scrape the shoe outside edge rather than the pedal itself in any case.
The cleats have built in 6deg. float.
Site sponsor R&A Cycles have the pedals and chainrings in stock for mail order supply or your local LBS can obtain them. Cranks will be in stock as soon as the next series is manufactured, the first series was sold out!
Tyler.
Inside sales guy.
www.CicliPrimavera.com Importers and distributors of Vista Pedals, M5 products, KMC Chains and OEM dealer for LEW Racing.
what is the retail price in us dollars, in the usa, of the complete crank, pedals, BB set up?
thanks.
Hi Vista,
What is the difference in stack between Look Keo and these pedals. How much are the pedals? Can they go in any crank or do they need a special crank. If they need a special crank what is the price and do they come in 110mm BCD?
Dev
dev, stack height doesn’t imply instability. as a thought experiment, add a 10cm block of aluminum to your existing pedals, using bolts/welding/anything to get a totally solid bond. now reimplement the cleat binding on top of the block. clip in. pedal. result: less seat-2-cleat, but no change in stability if the connections are solid. the
“add 2 look cleats” is a bad example - actual cleats all have inherent instability in them and adding 2 more just increases that.
note that i am not arguing that more stack height is a good idea (and as a corollary, nor am i arguing that less stack height is a good idea either). i just don’t think that stability is the issue that the question hinges on.
Let me just explain it more clearly. In an ideal world, you apply force tangentially to the crank arm. In other words, you strive to apply force at 90 degree angle to your cranks. This maximizes the vector force from your foot into the crank and by the laws of physics would result in the best power transfer. None of us can actually achieve this through the entire pedal stroke. The problem is that you want to apply this tangential force perpendicular to the crank at the centre of the hole that your axle treads into. The problem is compounded by the fact that your connection point is actually almost 2 cm away from this point throughout the pedal stroke. Its not a problem when you are stomping downward with the crank at 3 O’Clock…but when you get past 5 O’Clock and you are pulling back, and then past 6 pulling back and up, then you have this additional distance away from the centre of the pedal axle. If you do the free body diagrams degree by degree, you’ll see how difficult it gets for the human to apply the maximal instantaneous tangential force in the presence of this stupidly unneccesary stack height. In fact, old school Sidi Shoes with rat traps, offered pretty darn low stack height that modern pedals are just starting to match. The best pedal first introduced to minize the stack height of the first generation of Look pedals were the Time Pedals with time shoes (circa 1989)…the system that Pedro Delgado used to win the TdF.
Frankly I have been surprised by the fact that Time did not market this system effectively. They should have been hammering the stack height of Look type pedals in all their marketing and emerged ahead. Bottom line is that the old Look system was an inferior system to what time offered. Keo is better, although given that I have wasted this much time on this thread, I can’t believe that I use Look Keo…I guess the main reason is convenience. I really should just switch over to Time RXS or these things from Luxembourg.