Just saw this on the socials:
I hate latex tubes*, but love how fast and smooth they roll. Wonder if this would be a worthy rival? Article says the thermoplastic tubes roll similarly to latex, but I wonder how similarly? And the puncture resistance seems better. So are plastic tubes the future of tubed racing wheels?
https://www.instagram.com/p/CGUvHPigOiz/
*rear flat during IMFL. blaming latex.
Same technology as Tubolito, a few % faster than standard butyl but not on par with latex.
I’m not sure of your IMFL situation, but latex proves consistently harder to flat in both puncture and pinch, so if you punctured or pinched a latex tube, I can guarantee you would have done the same only worse to butyl.
The only downside risk to latex is the risk of pinching during install, once that hurdle is clear it’s a very robust solution.
Having said all that, these Schwalbe tubes and tubolito tubes are the ultimate spares… very small and light, I can fit 2 road tubes, 2x co2, tire levers and a multitool in a SILCA Mattone if using TP tubes.
Having said all that, these Schwalbe tubes and tubolito tubes are the ultimate spares…
Except I like a spare I can toss to someone at the side of the road without a second thought. That becomes a little harder at ~$35.
Having said all that, these Schwalbe tubes and tubolito tubes are the ultimate spares…
Except I like a spare I can toss to someone at the side of the road without a second thought. That becomes a little harder at ~$35.
This. I’ve also had bad luck destroying some of my latex tubes when pumping my tires with the Silca head. Maybe I’m just being too rough when I put it on, but I keep ripping the spot between the black bit around the valve stem and the pink tube but even at $7-10/tube when you find them on sale, is okay compared to the outrageous $32-35 plastic tubes.
I’m not sure of your IMFL situation, but latex proves consistently harder to flat in both puncture and pinch, so if you punctured or pinched a latex tube, I can guarantee you would have done the same only worse to butyl.
Josh, did you notice in the Schwalbe information that their “pinch flat” test protocol actually found that their lightweight butyl tube had the BEST performance (for that test)? I saw that and my first thought was “What’s wrong with this test?”
I also didn’t think that their evaluation of puncture resistance (which entailed pushing a rounded 1mm diameter rod into the material and measuring elongation and force) quite captured the real “puncture conditions” very well either…thoughts?
I’m not sure of your IMFL situation, but latex proves consistently harder to flat in both puncture and pinch,
By prove, how? What’s the proof?
I went from (latex) tubed to tubeless once I started riding around 80PSI because I could just look at a pothole and the latex tube would pinch flat. That was the magic PSI for me. Maybe it was better than butyl would have done, but the difference would have been irrelevant to me I was flatting so often.
We finished our testing on it yesterday, not as fast as any latex tube but very close. Looks like a Revoloop tube to me, the Revoloop Race Ultra (crazy light) was marginally better than a Michelin latex tube but not as fast as a Challenge/Vittoria/Vredestein latex.
I’m not sure of your IMFL situation, but latex proves consistently harder to flat in both puncture and pinch
I have about 10 years of experience that says the opposite. Once you get latex dialed in, it’s usually fine. And at Silca and Zipp, you’ve always had access to the best, cleanest, and newest stuff. But I find that for me in the real world, I got a ton of weird flats on latex- some rim side, some road side, some in the sidewall, etc. Just a random assortment of flats, sometimes for seemingly no reason. For that reason, I went back to butyl for everyday riding. I’m sold on latex for racing, but have zero trust in them. I wonder if the pastic tubes will be less finicky?
between these Challenge/Vittoria/Vredestein latex how do they rate. Getting latex particularly Vittoria around where I live is hard but curious how Challenge compares to Vittoria?
Challenge is identical to Vittoria, Vredestein is about 30% lighter than Vittoria but a tiny bit (imperceptibly really) faster. I’ll put the data up on our website later on this week. I’m surprised about how good the Aerothan and Revoloop tubes are given how similar they feel to Tubolitos (ie plasticy, but they are definitely a different construction. The Revoloop Ultra Race is just so light!
I’m not sure of your IMFL situation, but latex proves consistently harder to flat in both puncture and pinch
I have about 10 years of experience that says the opposite. Once you get latex dialed in, it’s usually fine. And at Silca and Zipp, you’ve always had access to the best, cleanest, and newest stuff. But I find that for me in the real world, I got a ton of weird flats on latex- some rim side, some road side, some in the sidewall, etc. Just a random assortment of flats, sometimes for seemingly no reason. For that reason, I went back to butyl for everyday riding. I’m sold on latex for racing, but have zero trust in them. I wonder if the pastic tubes will be less finicky?
…and I’ll counter your N=1 with my own, which is the exact opposite. I have FAR less issues with everyday use of latex tubes than I ever did with butyl.
It’s real simple: use tubeless tape for rim tape, and be careful with your installation.
I went from (latex) tubed to tubeless once I started riding around 80PSI because I could just look at a pothole and the latex tube would pinch flat.
Way different than my experience. In ~60k miles of riding with latex tubes, I’ve found them incredibly resistant to pinch flats. Just one example, test riding the course at nationals last year, going ~40mph on a downhill section I smacked into a pothole hard enough to break my fork and nearly crash. 23mm tires, 85psi. Rear tire had sidewall damage. Tubes were fine.
Another one several years ago, hit a brand new pothole on a descent in town. Both rims destroyed. Tubes were fine.
I only remember getting one pinch flat ever that didn’t also wreck the tire. That was a glancing hit on a sharp rock. Although recently I dented a rim on a similar hit and the tube was fine.
Latex is also great against sharp things penetrating the tread. Most of my flats are sidewall cuts. The only place latex seems to be lacking is that it will extrude through any tiny opening in the casing, so you may need to patch the tire if that happens.
YMMV.
I’m not sure of your IMFL situation, but latex proves consistently harder to flat in both puncture and pinch
I have about 10 years of experience that says the opposite. Once you get latex dialed in, it’s usually fine. And at Silca and Zipp, you’ve always had access to the best, cleanest, and newest stuff. But I find that for me in the real world, I got a ton of weird flats on latex- some rim side, some road side, some in the sidewall, etc. Just a random assortment of flats, sometimes for seemingly no reason. For that reason, I went back to butyl for everyday riding. I’m sold on latex for racing, but have zero trust in them. I wonder if the pastic tubes will be less finicky?
…and I’ll counter your N=1 with my own, which is the exact opposite. I have FAR less issues with everyday use of latex tubes than I ever did with butyl.
It’s real simple: use tubeless tape for rim tape, and be careful with your installation.
Same for me. No issues other than sometimes around the valve on tubes that are really old. Best thing about latex is that unless you just have a massive sidewall cut, they are somewhat self sealing and flat is usually not catastrophic. I’ve definitely ridden out of a few flats much like on tubulars. Super light tubes just go all at once, the outcome is usually not good. 
I get way less flats than everyone I ride w who’s on butyl
So latex must be better
.
Latex is also great against sharp things penetrating the tread.
Seems to be, yeah. The Bontrager R3 tires on my Emonda are very thin and were puncture magnets for the first couple years I had the bike, but since switching to latex, I haven’t gotten even a single puncture on them.
In fact, I think the only “puncture” I’ve gotten on the road on any bike on latex tubes was when I ran over a huge stabby thing that punched a gigantic gash straight through the tread. There’s no question that it would have also flatted a butyl or tubeless setup, and it caused me to replace the tire.
The only place latex seems to be lacking is that it will extrude through any tiny opening in the casing, so you may need to patch the tire if that happens.
Yeah, although even this can be overstated. I’ve actually had a few instances on my gravel bike where the latex tube was clearly visible through a sidewall cut, but amazingly did not herniate. I guess the low pressure probably helped in those cases though: most latex tubes on the road are going to be at more than 30PSI, haha.
Same technology as Tubolito, a few % faster than standard butyl but not on par with latex.
Same main ingredient (TPU) but based on the results, different technology. TPU, like any other material, can vary greatly.
Now that we’ve seen the RR data, I’d be curious to see some 3rd party tests on puncture resistance and leak rate vs butyl, light butyl, and latex
$32 bucks for a tube that can flat any second while riding? No thanks.
I think I’ll switch to Aerothans on my TT bike for training and then get a bit more of an idea what they’re like over time for leak rate/punctures etc.
I tend not to puncture much though, so if anyone else has any experience with the Aerothan it’d be good to hear.
We got Aerothans some time ago and have ridden about 4000km with these tubes and Pro One and Pro One TT tires. No puncture until now but we got pretty good roads here. They hold air better than latex, but not as good as thick butyl.
Challenge is identical to Vittoria
No sir - the most recent Vittoria’s now have a small round grommet at the base of the valve stem - which makes them more susceptible to failure when inflating, if you accidentally depress the valve stem when pushing on the chuck (like a Silca).
Current Challenge latex tubes still have the larger oval grommet like Vittoria used to have.