Has anyone had a chance to spec out a tri bike with the new EPS SR group yet with the base bar levers/shifters and new bar end shifters?
As a long time Campy user this looks very interesting.
https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Electronic_Groupsets/super_record_eps_12speed/triathlon_time_trial
Never seen a Campy TT shifter. I like the switch action! With EPS, are the TT shifters “dumb” or do they do some of the signal processing?
I have an older 11sp athena eps system.
Shifters like in your link: shifting is great and precise.
Only flaw: I have 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29 and it shifts great. There is a problem though but that can be my fault: I miss the 18 on flatter terrain so I mounted a 12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25 but I could not get the shifting all right to and from the 18. On the other hand, with the 12sp you probably do not have that problem.
I have hydraulic brakes so I only use the bar end shifters. This is generally a problem: the base bar levers are only for mechanical brakes? At least for me it is ok: I do not need base bar shifters.
The battery is a problem: I have an external one but it is still a hassle to demount it because cables extend from it which firstly extend a long way in the frame until they finally end in a plug/socket. If you do never dismount it is no problem but I had to already several times.
As I understand nowdays they only have an internal battery (cylindrically shaped and ugly) to mount inside of the saddle tube: I do not know if it fits in every airfoil-shaped saddle tube and it must be a hassle to mount/demount.
Because of the battery problem I would certainly buy an eTap on my next bike.
don’t really have an answer to that, can’t really tell from the press release info either. I prefer “dumb” style so that I control the shifting. My current bike (Trek SC Gen 1) is Campy Record and non electric and I love the Campy return to center bar end shifters.
Never seen a Campy TT shifter. I like the switch action! With EPS, are the TT shifters “dumb” or do they do some of the signal processing?
The only intelligence it has is if you shift behind the front derailleur adjusts when necessary and that just works absolutely great. Only because of that adjusting function you will never go back to mechanical shifting no more.
I don’t think I phrased my question correctly. I wasn’t referring to this specific 12sp groupset, but just EPS in general. I know on eTap, the blips are just basic momentary switches; all the signal processing is done at the blip box. This is unlike in Di2 where the shifters have circuit board in them to process the signal. I was curious is EPS’s TT shifters are similar to eTap’s blips?
Sorry for the OT question.
I don’t think I phrased my question correctly. I wasn’t referring to this specific 12sp groupset, but just EPS in general. I know on eTap, the blips are just basic momentary switches; all the signal processing is done at the blip box. This is unlike in Di2 where the shifters have circuit board in them to process the signal. I was curious is EPS’s TT shifters are similar to eTap’s blips?
Sorry for the OT question.
I opened the shifters several times and I would not bet my mother on it but what I remember is that it contains just a switch: no intelligence. Intelligence is in the interface unit AND in the battery.
EPS shifters are essentially dumb, just three switches, with one caveat.
For 12s TT rim brake only (there is no hydro option for TT as yet), the 11s bar end and base bar levers / shifters are used with the 12s TT Interface.
Not strictly relevant in the context of a TT forum but for the sake of completeness (others may be searching the same question …) there is a recognition chip in the 11s left-hand drop bar hydraulic shifter and in 12s drop bar shifters both rim and hydro, which triggers an automatic and programmed-in change in the shifting, if you have v3 11s with the most recent firmware (which can be upgraded via the MyCampy App) or v4, 12s.
The change in the front shifting affects the front derailleur stroke, because the chainring spacing for both the hydro 11 groupsand all the 12s groups is wider.
12s drop bar levers must be used with the standard 12s interface - the standard 12s interface won’t recognise or worh will 11s drop-bar shifters.
The bar end shifters are return-to-centre type and can be programmed via the MyCampy App to interact with the Interface and Power Unit in v3 11s and v4 12s just the same way as the drop-bar levers, allowing the user to customise the shift patterns and switch actions. Hence you can programme in single sprocket shifting (no matter how long you hold the lever up or down for, the system will only shift one sprocket), or you can opt for any number of multi-shifts from 2-10. You can change the multi-shift trigger time, so how long you need to hold the lever down for in order that multi-shift is triggered.
On the teams, * *some riders have single sprocket shift set, some retain multiple sprocket on their TT bikes. For the multi-shift guys, according to preference, we usually set multi-shift trigger time to as long as possible as their fine motor control goes a bit to the dogs when they are truly a bloc.
There are other options also programmed via the MyCampy app that really aren’t relevant here - but please feel free to mail us at Velotech Cycling Ltd (Campagnolo lead Service Centre in the UK) if you’d like more info.
Here at Velotech Cycling Ltd (Campagnolo’s lead UK Technical Centre), we’ve done several installations without problems.
The TT interface has extended cables now, so that on 12s, at least, newer TT positions with the hands significantly raised in front of the rider can be accommodated (cable lengths used to make this difficult on 11s).
Shifting is fast and precise, as you would expect from any electronic system, regardless of manufacturer and can be customosed via the MyCampy App.
If you need further detailed technical information, please email us direct (velotechcycling"at"aim.com) and we’ll be happy to give in-depth answers to any technical query you may have.
If you change elements in the cassette for those not intended, you may see unwelcome effects on the shifting. Not only will the shift ramps in the sprockets not be in the same places, but Campagnolo slightly change some of the sprocket-to-sprocket distances in some cassettes, which can interfere with the programmed values in the shifting matrix.
When you set the system up and tell it the positions of the 2nd and 10th sprocket (in 11s), you are telling the system, because the top three sprockets in any Campag cassette have slightly different spacing according to whether the cassette starts on 11, 12 or 13 teeth, what the start sprocket tooth number is. The system then makes an assumption, based on that and the fact that Campagnolo know what sprocket combinations they make, starting on 11, 12 or 13T, what the intermediate sprocket pattern is, in terms of spacing.
So - if you change an individual sprocket, or one of the triplets, or use a third party cassette where the makers have not properly understood Campagnolo’s system, you can see poor or glitchy shifting. The effective sprocket-to-sprocket spacing is sometimes managed on the sprockets themselves - so the teeth on the individual sprockets are not necessarily machined at the same point on the width of the sprocket - which is why sprockets with the same number of teeth, used at differing points in the cassette, may sometimes have different part numbers.
If you stick to the manufactured combinations, you won’t have problems. If you go off-piste, you may.
Power Units are only very, very seldom removed from the bike under normal circumstances. Once in place there is not normally any need to take them off / replace them. The internal PUs can be fitted into the majority of aero seat posts or fittings are available to fit them below the seatpost, or using the seat tube or even the downtube bottle cage boss fittings (assuming that the spaces inside the frame itself allow for these options). The switch system allows for switching the system off for air travel, where airlines demand it (most IME don’t).
As one of Campagnolo’s lead techs, I’d be interested to know why you’ve had to remove / replace the PU with enough frequency to make the fully-sealed wiring loom a problem? The system was designed in very close co-operation with the pro teams and amateur riders that Campag sponsors, many of whom travel with the bikes all the time and individual riders often have them in and out of bike bags etc - and we’ve not had any feedback from those quarters that we have missed a trick …
If the seatpost is regularly removed for travel with a bike box, etc, we recommend fitting of the PU, if at all possible, inside the frame, not the seatpost.
Super helpful and great information @gfk_velo. As someone who just switched over to Campy SR EPS TT within the last few weeks, I had problems finding information and troubleshooting. Love it when it’s worked, but have had a lot of trouble getting it to that point. Not a lot of users out there and only one mechanic in our area that knows anything about it. Thanks for the info!
Back to the original poster question about the bar end shifters, love them and the feel of shifting. Much better than pressing a single button
If you change elements in the cassette for those not intended, you may see unwelcome effects on the shifting. Not only will the shift ramps in the sprockets not be in the same places, but Campagnolo slightly change some of the sprocket-to-sprocket distances in some cassettes, which can interfere with the programmed values in the shifting matrix.
When you set the system up and tell it the positions of the 2nd and 10th sprocket (in 11s), you are telling the system, because the top three sprockets in any Campag cassette have slightly different spacing according to whether the cassette starts on 11, 12 or 13 teeth, what the start sprocket tooth number is. The system then makes an assumption, based on that and the fact that Campagnolo know what sprocket combinations they make, starting on 11, 12 or 13T, what the intermediate sprocket pattern is, in terms of spacing.
So - if you change an individual sprocket, or one of the triplets, or use a third party cassette where the makers have not properly understood Campagnolo’s system, you can see poor or glitchy shifting. The effective sprocket-to-sprocket spacing is sometimes managed on the sprockets themselves - so the teeth on the individual sprockets are not necessarily machined at the same point on the width of the sprocket - which is why sprockets with the same number of teeth, used at differing points in the cassette, may sometimes have different part numbers.
If you stick to the manufactured combinations, you won’t have problems. If you go off-piste, you may.
Power Units are only very, very seldom removed from the bike under normal circumstances. Once in place there is not normally any need to take them off / replace them. The internal PUs can be fitted into the majority of aero seat posts or fittings are available to fit them below the seatpost, or using the seat tube or even the downtube bottle cage boss fittings (assuming that the spaces inside the frame itself allow for these options). The switch system allows for switching the system off for air travel, where airlines demand it (most IME don’t).
As one of Campagnolo’s lead techs, I’d be interested to know why you’ve had to remove / replace the PU with enough frequency to make the fully-sealed wiring loom a problem? The system was designed in very close co-operation with the pro teams and amateur riders that Campag sponsors, many of whom travel with the bikes all the time and individual riders often have them in and out of bike bags etc - and we’ve not had any feedback from those quarters that we have missed a trick …
If the seatpost is regularly removed for travel with a bike box, etc, we recommend fitting of the PU, if at all possible, inside the frame, not the seatpost.
Thanks very useful information.
The sprocket 12-25 with which I had a problem shifting with is a standard campagnolo sprocket. But, as I wrote already, I could have made a mistake. I do not remember whether I made a new zero-setting on the 2nd and 10th cog. Maybe I could try it again once…
To the point of battery demount: I run an external battery (the bento-box shaped one) which is I think not available anymore. I had to demount it twice:
Firstly because the original battery was out of order from the beginning and I had to replace it with a guarantee-battery which is ok now since 4 years.
Secondly, I had a huge problem checking in on a plane. At first they thought it was an e-bike. I finally could convince the airline that electronic shifting has nothing to do with e-bikes.
However, the lady showed me a set of rules which included that batteries are not allowed in checked-in luggage. I was lucky however and she let me through. This was to Lanzarote. From Lanzarote back I wanted to avoid the hassle and I demounted the battery which is a lot of work.
After some research I concluded that most airlines do not allow any batteries in checked-in luggage, you rather have to carry that in hand-luggage.. You better belief that my wife works at an airline. Batteries in hand-luggage may not exceed a certain Wh , mostly 100 or 150 Wh. The battery of Campagnolo has 10 Wh, which is marked on it, so that is ok.
Needless to say that when I fly to Hawaii this October (sorry for the backdoor brag) I will dismount my battery again, mount it in Hawaii, and dismount it there again for the flight back. A huge hassle.
wow thanks for chiming in gfk, you are a huge wealth of information.
Now I just need to find a good source (price wise) to order the new components.
Blizzard, glad you like the group, where did you order it from?
Glory cycles
12-25 should work very well, so long as it’s correctly set up.
In general, the closer the ratios in any derailleur system, the better you can expect it to work as the smaller jumps provide less and smaller variables for the derailleur designer to wrestle with.
Accuracy of set-up is important on EPS because there’s no “fudge factor” that you can achieve with working, say, the cable tension and the high gear limit screw adjustment against each other. The initiation point (sprocket 2) and the termination point (sprocket 10) define how far outside of that range the derailleur will move as well as offering a method to determine what the layout of the sprockets between is.
In the new 12v system, the set up is broadly the same as 11s (sprocket 2 and 11) but one or more intermediate sprockets can be set individually.
With regard to the PU, it’s possible it’s variable with airlines / juristictions as to how they treat a battery when it is embedded in an elecro-mechanical system - within Europe I fly with an EPS bike very regularly (5, 6 times a year) as well as taking it once or twice a year to South Africa.
v2 PUs can be mounted externally if you need an external mount solution for 11s - although they are not officially in productionany longer, there is somw limited availability, along with v2 Interfaces. The charger is common to v3 & v4.
12-25 should work very well, so long as it’s correctly set up.
In general, the closer the ratios in any derailleur system, the better you can expect it to work as the smaller jumps provide less and smaller variables for the derailleur designer to wrestle with.
Accuracy of set-up is important on EPS because there’s no “fudge factor” that you can achieve with working, say, the cable tension and the high gear limit screw adjustment against each other. The initiation point (sprocket 2) and the termination point (sprocket 10) define how far outside of that range the derailleur will move as well as offering a method to determine what the layout of the sprockets between is.
In the new 12v system, the set up is broadly the same as 11s (sprocket 2 and 11) but one or more intermediate sprockets can be set individually.
With regard to the PU, it’s possible it’s variable with airlines / juristictions as to how they treat a battery when it is embedded in an elecro-mechanical system - within Europe I fly with an EPS bike very regularly (5, 6 times a year) as well as taking it once or twice a year to South Africa.
v2 PUs can be mounted externally if you need an external mount solution for 11s - although they are not officially in productionany longer, there is somw limited availability, along with v2 Interfaces. The charger is common to v3 & v4.
Thanks again for your extensive answers.
To return to the shifters: they indeed work great: they have the same logic as mechanical shifters but the control is nicer: for shifting you need very little power, on the other hand there is a nice pressurepoint for feedback that you HAVE shifted.
Such that I shift a lot more than I used to do mechanically. It shifts also so nice that I do not miss any shifters at the basebar, as I said I use the system only with shifters on the bar ends. It used to be awkward to shift mechanically when I was climbing with my hands on the basebar, because you needed some power to shift so the whole action could cause a swerve of the bike. Electronically no problem, I move my hand to the bar end, shift and move the hand back without causing any movement of the bike. With di2 that should be not so nice, since you push their buttons sideways and not up or down as with Campagnolo.
As I said, perfect system if there were not that battery-problem which I described…