Right now, I am running in Mizuno Wave Rider 7’s. I like them but I want to try a lightweight trainer (possibly headed the minimalist route). I went to the local running store and tried the DS Trainer. It was very comfortable and felt good to run in. I got home and looked around the web and realized that this has some stability control in there which I do not need. While looking on the web, I checked out the New Balance 833’s and think that is more what I am looking for (neutral, lightwieght) but the local running store does not have them in my size. Anyone out there runnning in these? If so, what are your thoughts? Alternatives in other brands?
I’ve run in the 833s for 4 years…since the 825 model came out. I love em. Try getting themn on Road Runner Sports dot com.
Good golly they are comfortable. I’ve only put about 50 miles on mine because I use them mostly for races, but the inside of the shoe sure is nice and smooth. Good shoe for running without socks.
My wife says the same thing about hers.
Its a once piece upper which means there’s very little stitching inside the shoe.
I started with the 827’s way back… I like them because I wear orthotics and since they are lightweight… plus they come in wide sizes… They don’t last long tough. it took me a while to figure this out but 200 miles is the max I put on a pair… very other month I need new shoes…
Lastplace,
The 833’s are a good shoe. You are not going more minimal bt switching to that shoe. In fact, you are getting into a taller shoe. The Riders are 24mm heel/12mm forefoot. The 833’s are 24/14, so you are adding 2mm to the forefoot. NB always tries to keep 10mm drop from heel to toe and Mizuno uses 12. Just because its light does not mean that it is less. If you want to go to less shoe try the Mizuno Aero. It uses 22/10 so you will maintain the 12mm drop. The Spacer uses 20/10 (the standard for most racers) so you will have to adjust to the -2mm on the drop. The precision is 23/11 and the Phantom is 22/11 and are both great chioces. If you want to switch brands you could try the Asics Tiger Paw, the Adidas Adistar Comp. Nike has a GREAT shoe due in January called the Marathoner. Paula was wearing them yesterday and I thik that will be one of the better shoes out when it hits.
I would highly recomend going to less shoe unless you have a key race comming up, then make the switch after it. Of all the above shoes I would say get the Mizuno Aero now so you wont have to adjust to a different heel/toe drop then get the Mizuno Spacers after your season is done. And dont worry, you’ll still get the same # of miles out fo them as you did your Riders. Mizuno makes great shoes so I see no need to switch brands if they fit you well.
what about mizuno wave mustangs or New Balance 752’s?
Thanks
My current fave sneaker (the new balance rc150 were discontinued so I had to look elsewhere) are the Asics Gel-Flash DS. Kinda ugly neon yellow color which was a turn off at first but they grow on ya. Why not give them a look see if you are going the minimalist route.
The Asics Flash looks to be a good shoe but I wouldnt call it minimal. Less than normal, but not minimal. A good shoe if you do a lot of running on the roads.
The Mizuno Mustang is one of the tallest shoes for Mizuno at 25/13 and is not worth it. No point in going taller if you are a runner.
NB 753’s are ok. Again at 24/14 like NB likes for their shoes but I think its better than the 833 because it is made a bit firmer. The fit is quite differet than the 833 but they are the same height off the ground. The best NB shoes out right now are the RC205 and the 900. The 205 is very low and fits much better than the other racers and the 900 is the best training shoe out there because it is 20/10 and has a wider stance (not fit) meaning that the platform spreads from the foot to the ground giving it a great ability to act natural.
RC205 RC500 also good but not as good a fit
NB 900 & Asics Flash
I LOVE THE NB 900!!!
It’s light! It’s fast! It’s comfortable! Buy it for training. Use it for racing.
Doesn’t the dual density midsole of the NB900 *prevent *the foot/shoe from acting natural? I considered trying the 900 but decided not to because I like my 833’s and didn’t want to add more stability features.
I would think that a slightly taller overall shoe that has less offset from heel to toe would feel more natural than something with more offset that is closer to the ground. Our bodies are designed to feel variations between points more than differences in total elevation (I would think.)
Just curious about your thoughts.
The NB 900 is a much different ride than the 833. Its much more like a flat than a trainer.
I do a lot of my miles on the concrete of the Embarcadero in San Francisco so I prefer the little extra padding in the 833s.
Total elevation is what gets most shoes a thumbs down from me. The amount of cushion is the key factor here. The taller you go the more unstable the shoe becomes.
Pronation control has taken on a meaning in the shoe world that is false. Thats why science has supported adding pronation control for the sake of keeping the foot in a “neurtal” position. Neutral meaning less pronation. This is where they go wrong. Neutral pronation should mean “the proper amount of pronation for the way your individual body moves.” You will pronate a set amount. that amount of pronation is GOOD. Being 24mm off the ground creates an unstable platform and CREATES MORE pronation by way of physics. All feet pronate and by definition that is moving inward of the sub-taylor joint. Inward motion that “falls over” the soft cusion that is the shoe.
So pronation control in a running shoe is not reducing the amount of pronation that your foot has like “they” will tell you. It is preventing the shoe from creating MORE pronation.
That being said, they can also create less than ideal pronation. The 900 generally is too low to really impact you if you dont need the stability. If you are prone to ITBS I might stay away but otherwise it should be fine.
The other factor is the deadened feel from the ground. The more you pad your foot from the ground the less feel you get from each strike. Cushion is so unbelievably over rated. Hard surfaces like concrete are not great but you really dont need much to get that “soft earth” feel, as I like to call it. The same amount of energy is there whether you have no shoe on or have a super soft squish ball. the only differance is the way you accept the force. X amount of weight at Y velocity, squish or no, that # stays the same. Runing more forward than up and down is the most readilty visible result of running barefoot. There were studies done that suggested that a runner impacts at 4x their body weight. Great runners will impact at 2x and PUSH OFF at 5-7x. that is a huge #. The difference is that the poor form runner is absorbing 4x, and the better runners are only absorbing 2x but they are GENERATING up to 7x. What will hurt you more, absorbing a 90mph fastball or throwing a 90mph fastball?
The best shoes out there are yet to be made. I hope to see something from someone soon. I personally would make it about 8-10mm thick the whole way through, have the platform be wider than the fit, be a one or two piece upper with no sticthing on the inside espicially in the heel or the arch, and have what cushion it has be made from a form of polyurithane not EVA. You could make three models. The road trainer would be made like above, the trail would be the same but have a more aggressive outsole and the racer would have an EVA midsole, and a Blown rubber outsole, just to make it light. I shouldn’t be sharing this with you guys, you’ll steal my ideas and make millions! If you do, could I get sponsored?
Questions, comments, concerns? Anybody want a mint? Too late.
LaWoof,
Thanks for the advice. I will take a look at the Aero. There has been a lot of discussion about minimalist shoes and it seems that people talk about using a lightweight trainer to transition to a minimalist shoe. Is that step down really necessary? Sounds like height wise I am not making much of a difference switching from the WR to the Aero. If I were to go straight to the Spacer (my season is done) would I be better off?
The step depends on what shoes you are comming from and going to. For you, the Riders were fine so pronation issues involved with shoes is less a factor. Season’s over? Go straight to the Spacers. When you think about it its not really that much different. Those few mm’s will make a differance. The other factor is that the shoes will get lower as they break down. This is good. Some of my best shoes I had to wear around for 6 months to compress the midsole before they were right. Your not getting it for the cushion. Its just protection from the rocks and such and reduces the negative effects of running on concrete. Ive put over 1000 miles on every one of my shoes except 1, and that 1 got 600 or so.
You may feel tight in your calfs for a few months. The first 2-4 week will be the worst but after that it will only hurt a bit when you go hard or long. Take it easy and know the differance between good pain and bad pain.
Good luck.
One small glitch with the Spacer’s is that they are too small. It turns out that there aren’t that many companies making racing flats in size 14. You recommended the Asics GEL Tiger Paw in an earlier post which does come in a 14. I also found the Brooks Racer ST and the Sauconey Fastwitch in 14’s. Is the Tiger Paw going to be the best of that bunch?
I’m also curious about a comment you made earlier about stability and ITBS. Is a stability shoe going to make that worse or is it going to make it worse if you wear a stability shoe when you do not need one? Thanks.
Well look at that! Spacers only go to sz 13. I have the same problem. 13 usually works but sometimes a 14 does the trick. It’s sad, they make SOOOOOOOmany great shoes for the Asian market but they only go to sz12 or so.
T3’s and Tiger Paw’s are both great. the T3’s are very soft and have a wek forefoot so to train in the TP’s will be better. Reebok Premier Comp is a great shoe. The NB 205 is hard to beat. Also try the Adidas Aistar comp. Mizuno and Adidas people seem to go well together. the fast twitch is still up higher than the others so its not much change.
Overall I would say the TP’s are the best bang for your buck. I have a pair and they were great for a while. i need a bit of stability when I get that far off the ground so it didnt work for very many miles. Was great while it lasted and for sure have a lot of life left in them. Go for the TP’s but expect a very different fit than the WR’s. Second choice would be the NB 205’s.
ITBS is often caused by the shoe being too stable. That doesnt happen often in racers but it can. If you look at the shoe from the back and see it tipping to the outside or if you stand and weight the heel and they tip to the outside that could be the problem, provided its a stability shoe. If its happering in the Riders there is not much you can do other than go to less shoe or change them more often. Saucony’s are the worst at this. If you are prone to ITBS dont even look at a Saucony shoe. ITBS can be onset by so many things it is hard to say without seeing everything.