The doctor said I would be better off using ortho insoles.
The problem is, most shoes I’ve tried have a very thin insole and my new orthos have like a 1/4 or 1/3 of an inch in the heel. That will add both height inside the shoe and more drop. I also feel my heel slipping out of the shoe.
Any shoe you can recommend to use with those thick insoles?
I use Hoka Bondi and Torrent with my orthotics. I have also had success with different models of New Balance shoes. Generally when I find a model that works with my orthotics I keep buying the same model.
When buying new shoes I always take my orthotics with me, remove the insole, put my orthotic in and walk around the shop a few times. I will quickly know if my heel is going to slip out of the shoe.
I never found a cycling shoe that my orthotics fitted well. My bike fitter recommended the “G8 Performance Pro Series 2620 Insoles”. I have adjusted them so that are almost an exact match for my orthotic. They are thinner than my orthotic and fit in standard cycling shoes.
The doctor said I would be better off using ortho insoles.
The problem is, most shoes I’ve tried have a very thin insole and my new orthos have like a 1/4 or 1/3 of an inch in the heel. That will add both height inside the shoe and more drop. I also feel my heel slipping out of the shoe.
Any shoe you can recommend to use with those thick insoles?
Of course they told you that, that’s how these people make money (selling you stuff you don’t need). I had the same issue, threw the ortho insoles in the trash and found shoes that work for me.
The doctor said I would be better off using ortho insoles.
The problem is, most shoes I’ve tried have a very thin insole and my new orthos have like a 1/4 or 1/3 of an inch in the heel. That will add both height inside the shoe and more drop. I also feel my heel slipping out of the shoe.
Any shoe you can recommend to use with those thick insoles?
you can’t run in neutral shoes with footbeds installed. the shoe needs to be supported on the medial side (the inside) or the arch support built into the footbed (that’s the point of the footbed) will break the shoe down. you need a shoe with substance and structure.
i run in footbeds in HOKAs. not every HOKA, but the more substantial editions. of course, HOKA maintains that shoes like the Bondi, Bondi X, Carbon X, Mach 4 and Mach 5, are neutral shoes. okay. i think “neutral” is a good word and “structured” is a bad word, if you want to sell shoes. so, HOKA attaches the good word to its shoes.
but HOKA also makes a big deal about its “active footframe” that is, basically, a bucket seat inside of which your foot goes. that bucket seat is the element in the shoe that supports the footbed. that is the structure. that, and the wide outsole that supports the whole system.
i think HOKA can have it both ways. the structure provided by the shoe doesn’t make the shoe slow or clumsy or heavy. it runs like a neutral shoe for those who don’t need structure, but it’s got plenty of structure to withstand the stress of a footbed. i just think HOKAs have outgrown or engineered around the utility of terms like neutral or structured.
Opens can of worms…
The intro. I’m not a podiatrist, shoe sales person or in any way qualified to advise. This is just my personal experience. Had fecked ankles my whole life - first achilles operations aged 12, broke right ankle aged 18, with the bone chip going into the joint aged 21. Ligament reconstruciton on both sides after inversion injuries whilst running, nerve damage on both sides, etc etc. Have been using orthotics since 2000.
My personal response to the suggestion that we were born to run barefooted is to point out that yes, genetics derive from those that roamed the plains hunting and gathering. However my genes came from the bloke that stayed at camp looking after the fire. So no, I’m doing things that my body really wasn’t designed to do when I go running long distances.
All the podiatrists bar 1 in the last 22 years (and these range from ‘meh’ to the podiatrist for Man Utd soccer team) have said that I do need orthotics to compensate (not correct) my over pronation, and that I should use these with supportive shoes. One explained that the best an orthotic can do is get you 90% there, so the shoe is needed to do the rest. Having said that, I have trialed some shoes that are too supportive, but that’s why you go to a really good running shop, and spend 40mins testing shoes, getting their advice, and then buying 4 pairs from that shop.
Personally I have been through the Brooks Adrenelines, New Balance 85X and the Asics 2XX0 series. I’m now in the Saucony Omni and have been for the last 4-5 years (onto pairs 14-17 at the moment). In all cases the insole comes out, the orthotic goes in.
It does take some time to get used to the feel of shoes with orthotics, and indeed wearing orthotics in everyday shoes can limit your choice - some things just don’t fit.
But having been told by my first surgeon that I should never do any sports with foot impact - so basically swim, cycle and row I’ve now had 35 years of doing what I want, including regularly doing 70km per week of training runs. Not without incident, but certainly not as limiting as I was before where I spent most of my life with a sprained ankle.
It gets even more fun now that we have categories like “structured neutral.”
Note that for the below, stability means there’s some type of either posting or guide rail system exclusive to the medial side of the shoe.
My go-to list of shoes when you need to toss an orthotic in there:
Structured Neutral
Hoka Bondi
Saucony Triumph
Brooks Glycerin
Brooks Dyad
Stability
Saucony Omni
Brooks Adrenaline
Asics GT2000 series
I use ortho insoles - I do most of my kms in Saucony Guides, my speedwork in Saucony Endorphin Speeds, and race in Endorphin Pros. I’ve also had success in Kinvaras for speedwork / races.
I know that this is exclusively a Saucony list, but I find they tend to work well with insoles (the Endorphin Pros needed some adjustment) and I’ve been relatively bulletproof for injuries since I’ve adopted this system. Previously I was one of those always injured runners.
I have wide and flat feet, and am a serial pronator, if that helps
maybe this doesnt matter for the course of this conversation, but do you have orthotics for low or high arches or something else?
I’m a chiro and I see runners coming in with foot, ankle, knee, hip, back issues every week.
I’m not going to make general assumptions as I don’t know your history and reason for orthoses prescription.
There are some good recommendations of shoes which fit a orthoses well from people commenting above. It is true that adding the insole will change the fit and ride of the shoe, so it would be best to go into a local specialty run store and try on a bunch of different offerings.
I would say that in general I like to use an insole as a temporary intervention (think splint or cast), where as they have been historically used as a permanent intervention (think prescription eye glass). That is not to say that there are some people who should be wearing insoles permanently, but it is the small minority of people who I have coming into the office.
My advice would be find a practitioner that you can work with to help identify a cause of the condition and work with you to address it.
Feel free to send me a message if you have any questions.
In my experience, a good orthotics person will know some good shoes to work with your orthotic.
But having been down that route, I’m firmly in the hobbyjogger camp now.
Stability
Saucony Omni
Brooks Adrenaline
Asics GT2000 series
You need to add the Saucony Tempus to your list. more structure than the GT 2000 series, feels better than all 3 of them as well. You sit a little deeper in the shoe and it transitions from landing to toe off better than any. We had them in stock <2 weeks and the conversion rate from those 3 to the Tempus is > 70%
Haven’t gotten them on my feet yet.
Once I do…then it can come and play. Until then…
how did you find your best shoe to run in? I went to the podiatrist to have myself scanned and went with his recommendation
yes, I will be using them to run, not for the bike. I don’t have or feel that I have problems on the bike.
I did take the insoles to the store, and found a pair that might work. I will try it this week.
Thanks Dan, I will look into the Hokas.
I do have the Arahi 2, which was marketed as the pronators shoe. I will try those shoes with my new insoles. I honestly wanted something less “maximal”, that is the reason I mainly stopped using the Arahis. Also the insole gives me more height and cushion, so I’m not sure how that would feel with the extra support from the shoe.
I do have almost flat feet, but mechanically supinate, specially when I land. The Doc said that cancelled out my pronation, and the dynamic test shows I do a neutral gait.
Very interesting response! thanks! I will definitely look into those shoes you mentioned. I have a labrum tear surgery and have had all the runner issues, fasciitis, hurting knees, achilles tendon sprain, ankle sprain, itb band… lol
I have very low arches, almost flat feet, but my ankles roll to the inside when my feet are up, so supinating. Then, the dynamic step test showed I do a neutral gait. Doc said one compensates for the other.
I used to get the pronator shoes, for the passive flat feet, but I have had all kinds of injuries, the last one being a labral tear and FAI that I did surgery for.
yes, I will be using them to run, not for the bike. I don’t have or feel that I have problems on the bike.
I did take the insoles to the store, and found a pair that might work. I will try it this week.
Initially I did not think that I had a problem on the bike. However after wearing orthotics supports in my cycling shoes I found that this reduced some of the plantar problems I was having. If you are doing long distance Tri and spending a lot of time on the bike, orthotics on the bike may help.
Thanks Dan, I will look into the Hokas.
I do have the Arahi 2, which was marketed as the pronators shoe. I will try those shoes with my new insoles. I honestly wanted something less “maximal”, that is the reason I mainly stopped using the Arahis. Also the insole gives me more height and cushion, so I’m not sure how that would feel with the extra support from the shoe.
I do have almost flat feet, but mechanically supinate, specially when I land. The Doc said that cancelled out my pronation, and the dynamic test shows I do a neutral gait.
i don’t know why the Arahi ever got made.
Because HOKA “needed” a shoe in the stability category.
Seeing as they’re on the 6th version of it…it’d appear it works. 