Need training advice for a "fast" sprint tri

I’m having a hard time finding plans or info on how to train for a “fast” sprint tri. I’d love to get to 1:06 give or take 1 minute. I’ve only participated in 3 tri’s and am focusing on short distance for now. My best race was 1:13ish and went like this…
400m swim - 8:52
T1 - 2:14
22km bike - 36:50
T2 - 1:52
5km run - 24:03

The run and swim are the first 2 areas that really need improvement. My run training suffered this summer due to PF, but I’m back at it and using the BarryP plan to build back up.

My transitions were about 30 - 45 sec slower each than they needed to be. I chalk a lot of that up to lack of experience and poor organization. I could have hustled a bit more as well.

Thanks in advance for your help and go easy on me.

Typically the people who do really well are doing the run at close to a 5 min/mile pace, so if you can pick up some run speed, that will help out big time.

5 minute mile pace is 15:32 for a 5k. There are not many age groupers running that speed.

To OP- From your splits, you could probably use some form coaching for your swim. Beyond that, try BarryP and try to make all of your time on the bike constructive.

You need to spend more time in the pool and with your run. Make sure to include some high intensity threshold work and you’ll start to see your splits improve. It never gets easier… you just get faster.

I did 1:06:31 on my 3rd sprint but the swim was only 325 at 1:29/100yar but I found a lot of time in my transitions at T1 :46 sec and T2 :52 sec I don’t have time to train much so I just do high intensity all the time and I’m sure that’s one reason I have PF right now it sucks. I trained about 5hrs a week. don’t use socks and leave your bikes shoes clipped in your bike and run fast in transition.

It would be pretty easy to find some speed with some extended work in the pool.

The bike is the most “up to pace” for a 66:00 sprint, but don’t neglect time in the saddle. Try to incorporate some over-speed stuff into your cycling workouts.

For the run you can (and should) definitely shed some time. A lot of people underestimate the power of the track. Even if you are a novice, one track workout per week with a focus on form can help your running a lot. Do a mix of 200s, 400s, 800s and maybe throw in a mile. Try to improve each week.

That’s as basic as I can make it. Good luck!

Definitely will work on the bike as well, as I think an average closer to 24mph on the same course is both doable and what’s needed to help get to my goal.

For those doing sprints in this time range, how are you structuring your weeks? With my run needing as much work as it does, I’m trying to center everything off the BarryP plan. Maybe use a modified version of BarryP, if that’s not an insult, at 5x?

My last sprint tri had 0:18 t1. and a 0:11 t2. obviously the course matters for how fast transitions can be, but thats just an idea at how fast you can make them if you work on them. just tri to get more swim volume and keep barry P and work on those transition

A) Spend from now until March 1 building your running base. The BarryP method is a good way to do this. Ignore the people telling you to do faster running right now. Your goals are to:

  1. Not get injured
  2. Increase/develop your bodies ability to handle higher mileage.

Ideally, you’ll get to where you are running 5-6 days/week. If you get to the point where you are consistently running that often, do some tempo running during one of the days.


B) Find a Masters program. It’s going to be scary and humbling. Do your best and stick with it. You’ve got to become that “Rudy” guy who sucks but the other people on the team root for because you are giving 100% every practice.
Swim 3X/week minimum

C) Bike 2-3 times/week. 45-60 minutes. Some typical workouts would be:

10 minute warmup
5x5’ as hard as you can go (3’ rest)
5’ cooldown

The exact format doesn’t matter, but you should be killing yourself for that workout. For time considerations, it’s often helpful to do a 20-30 minute run right after the bike.

Check back in on March 1 and we’ll talk about where to go from there. If you do the above, you will be ready to kill it next summer.

PS Learn to take pride in your transition times. There’s no reason you can’t win the transitions in every race. Honestly, it takes 1 practice, and it’s the easiest time you’ll gain in this sport. People spend $5K to save a fraction of the time they lose by putting their shoes on slowly.

Like your post, this sounds like very good advice. Your wording sounds like you have years of experience.

My suggestion:

Swim more - You’re time is pretty bad - its worse than mine and I suck at swimming. When you are done swimming, jump on the treadmill after for your daily run - its easy on the knees and a real time-saver.

Bike 4 or 5 days a week for 45 minutes to an hour - push pretty hard to very hard on all of them - every so often go a bit longer.

Build up to running 4 or 5 days a week for 3.1 miles (assuming you are running less).

400m swim - 8:52
T1 - 2:14
22km bike - 36:50
T2 - 1:52
5km run - 24:03

7 min miles would give you 21:44. That’s 2:19 off your time. Swim if you get to 1:50 pace, that’s 7:10 for another 1:42. (Up to 4:01).

Your transitions are abysmal unless they include long runs from the mat to the bike. For T1, learn to bike without socks, and you should be in and out in under :30 (If the mats are at the entrance/exit to transition and it’s not ungodly long). T2 you should be in/out in under 1:00 (Even if you put on socks). That would give you another 2:40(ish). That’s 6:41 off of your time of 1:13:49, puts you at 1:07:08. So out of the 6 minutes you need, almost 1/2 of that can come from your transitions.

John

Think about improving your pace in each discipline rather than your total time. Triathlons range in distance, and the distance you did is pretty atypical. It is one thing to compare times from olympic distance races that conform to the standard 1.5/40/10k distances, and another thing to compare total times from sprint triathlons where the swim and bike are wonky distances. Transition times are also a confounding variable, further reinforcing the point that it is best to compare pace in each discipline.

Swim: 400m in 8:52 works out to 2:13/100m.
Bike: 22k in 36:50 works out to roughly 22.3mph
Run: 24:03 5k works out to 7:45/mi

Relatively speaking, the swim is your worst discipline. People have VASTLY different definitions of what constitutes “Front of Pack,” and will badger my definition for this all day long, but the top guys here in NC are throwing down somewhere around 1:08/100m, bike pace between 25 and 26mph, and somewhere around 5:40 miles to the tune of a mid-17 5k. The exact numbers there don’t really matter because we’re only looking for a ballpark comparison. If you race someone that throws down those paces/speeds, the swim takes ~4:40, the bike takes roughly 31min and the run takes…say 17:45. On the swim you’re giving up a little over 4 min, on the bike you’re giving up just under 6 min, and on the run you’re giving up a touch over 6 min. Of course, the disciplines each take a different amount of time, so you’re ~100% slower than the FOP guy on the swim, ~10% slower on the bike, and ~25% slower on the run. Percentage-wise, you have the most room for improvement on the swim, 2nd most on the run, and 3rd most on the bike. You’re losing about the same amount of time on the bike and the run, because the bike is the longest leg of the race, and thus a smaller percentage improvement there will result in more actual time gained.

I’m not saying that my hypothetical FOP paces are anywhere near the limit of what humans are capable of, but they’re in the diminishing returns section of the improvement curve in the sense that each additional unit of training/effort input will result in less improvement per unit. Given that you are so far from this point in the swim, I would suspect that you will see the most improvement per unit training time input there. Accordingly, you would probably see the second most improvement per unit time on the run, and 3rd most on the bike. Improvement on the bike can also be purchased, unlike improvement in the water or on the run.

Transition is also an often-forgotten discipline where real time can be gained (or lost). In a non-wetsuit race that doesn’t take place in frigid weather, you should be able to spend less than 15 seconds at your rack in each transition. Cutting out extraneous actions, gear changes, and movement is the key to a fast transition. I am a firm believer that the fastest suit anyone can race in for a sprint or Olympic distance race is one like the Kiwami or PZ3–a suit that functions as a swim skin, but can also be worn during the remainder of the race. Having to stop in T1 to take off a swim skin, or put on a shirt/top of some sort will ALWAYS be slower than not having to do either of those things. Drying off hair/feet, putting on socks, and consuming gel/fluid are all extraneous actions that are not necessary and waste time when compared with someone who does not do those things. If you happen to do any of the above, I would recommend taking steps to change your habits such that you do not have to do any of those things in transition, because you are guaranteed to lose time doing those things when compared with someone who does not. In T2, stopping to tie your running shoe laces will always be slower than a cheap pair of speed laces.

Finally, some will disagree on this point, but it is my belief that rubber-banding one’s cycling shoes to the bike and properly executing a flying mount will save time over putting on one’s cycling shoes in transition, running in them, and executing a mount of any kind. The only way the rubber-banded shoes method is not faster is if you can not do it properly, thus the primary (and valid) argument against this method is that it is slower in actuality because most triathletes don’t practice it enough to actually save time using it. Thus the conclusion I’ve reached is that rubber-banded shoes (properly executed) is faster than putting them on in transition and running in them, while improper execution of the rubber-banded shoes method is frequently equal to or slower than the alternative. If you’re spending 2 min in transition and the transition doesn’t involve running 400m or more, then you should be able to cut some serious time off by eliminating waste.

Run a few 5k races. They will really help you push yourself for that distance. I found it was impossible to push myself to that limit without the “race” environment. Work in tempo stuff during the week and you should be able to easily drop some time off the run.

Good luck

Reiterating some of what others have said, but maybe repetition will drive the point. Your transitions are way too long. Not sure what you’re doing, but for a sprint socks are not necessary. Shirts are not generally necessary either, but check with RD to see if they’re required. Stop doing breast stroke, just get in and do 100 on 2:00, then 50 on 1:00, repeat for about 2000 SCY. Shorten the interval as you can. Stick with the Barry P plan for running, and do some intervals on the bike. Done and done.

Reiterating some of what others have said, but maybe repetition will drive the point. Your transitions are way too long. Not sure what you’re doing, but for a sprint socks are not necessary. Shirts are not generally necessary either, but check with RD to see if they’re required. Stop doing breast stroke, just get in and do 100 on 2:00, then 50 on 1:00, repeat for about 2000 SCY. Shorten the interval as you can. Stick with the Barry P plan for running, and do some intervals on the bike. Done and done.

this, unless the transition chute/area is huge you should be spending half of the time it took you.

I’ve seen it quite often in the races I’m competing in, and this would be in the 40-49 age group.

The way I see it is you have two options:

Work on all three sports simultaneously.
Start by increasing the mileage of each discipline, but be careful not to get injured by increasing your run mileage too quick;y.
Add some ‘1-hr sessions’ as you get closer to the race. (2 x 20mins on the bike, 7Km run hard, 10 x 100m Swim etc.).
Finish off by doing some sprint sessions a few weeks out from your race .

Work on one sport at a time without totally neglecting the other 2 sports (ie. Put 8 hrs into one sport + 1-2 hrs maintenance into the other two). At least 3-4 months focusing on each sport, which should let you work on 2 disciplines during the year.

Having a look at your times for each discipline, I would probably suggest going with the first option. There isn’t any glowing weakness/strength in one sport relative to another, except for maybe transitions and I don’t suggest you spending 8 hours a week practising your transitions.

If you have a decent plan and put the effort in during the off-season, you will see big improvements come the racing season.
Good Luck!

I appreciate all the advice provided as well as the reality of slow some of my times are. Transitions would be a great place to pickup time as the fastest guys were clocking 1:30 for T1 and 1:15 for T2. Yes, it’s a big transition area! :slight_smile:

Sprints are about intensity and redline effort. Training needs to be quality driven to improve speed, lactate threshold, and your tolerance to work at a high % of max heart rate for an hour. All 3 disciplines will require 2 quality workouts per week, plus some easy active recovery volume. These workouts should include: one focused on shorter intervals, the other focused on threshold pace.