New York City is going to be my first marathon. I think I’m close to being able to do it in 3:10, which requires about a 7:15 mile pace or better over the 26.2 miles. But I’m not quite there yet. So far this year, my distance runs have been:
January: Al Gordon 10k (9.3 mi) in 1:08:32 – 7:22 pace, 30 degree temp
March: Brooklyn 1/2 marathon in 1:40:20 – 7:39 pace, 60 degrees
May: Queens 1/2 marathon in 1:36:48 – 7:23 pace, 45 degrees
July: Bronx 1/2 marathon in 1:39:47 – 7:37 pace, 90 degrees
In addition, I did a 4 miler in central park in 26:40, or 6:40 pace. In my training runs, my best times are one 3.42 mile loop of Prospect Park in 23:12, or 6:48 pace, 2 loops (6.8 miles) in 48:30, or 7:06 pace, and 4 loops (13.6 mi long run) in 1:48, or 7:54 pace.
Right now I’m building and peaking for the Timberman 1/2 Ironman on Aug 17th. But I’d like to plan my run workouts around the Marathon, aside from a taper period in Aug. For the past few months, I’ve typically done three run workouts a week: two 7 mile “tempo” runs in 50 minutes or less (plus 10 min WU), and one long run of 13.6 miles in 1:55 or less. I’ve done some interval workouts (6 x 3 minute sprint, 3 minute recover) but have not been consistent about doing them every week. I’ve also done some weight-room work, but not in the past month. I’m confident that I could jump to a 40 mile a week run schedule if I wasn’t also cycling. One weak area is my left knee, which has given me fits of ITB & patellar tendonitis if I work it too hard, so I want to be conscious of that.
There’s 4 weeks until the 1/2 ironman and 11 weeks after that to train exclusively for the marathon. I’d welcome any and all advice on how to structure that time to help me get to a 3:10 marathon on Nov 2.
I don’t want to burst your bubble but I think 3:10 is to aggressive. Especially for a “first” marathon. You should play it more conservative or you may get injured. In fact it sounds like you may already have a potentialy serious injury.
I’ve done 1:35 in a challenging(slow coarse) 1/2 marathon, 37 min in a 10k, and still never broke 3:30 in a (fast coarse) full marathon.
With a 1 37 half, I’d say you’re looking at (at best) a 3 30 marathon, which is a reasonable (and achievable) target for a first marathon. You need (IMHO) to be running a 1 25 half and a sub 38 10km AND have a very good endurance base to go sub 3 10 marathon. If you start NY at 7 15 pace I think you’ll find out (on the basis of your current performances) at about 15 - 18 miles that 3 15 on paper is a LOT different to 3 15 on the road. I’d like you to prove me wrong, but my first marathon was 3 31 after I’d run a 1 18 half 3 months before. I eventually PBed at 2 56 off a 1 16 half but the last 10km of a (hard effort) marathon is like the road to hell and you’ve forgotten your prayer book. Good luck with the practical, but your theory seems a bit flawed to me. Give the distance the respect it deserves and set yourself a reasonable target for your first race. I’d say 3 30 sounds about right.
nog has it right; mile 15-18 is the big bitch in marathons. experienced runners forever repeat the “felt great through the first 15” schtick. it is indeed true.
but to work on nogs points, don’t start at your average pace; start slower and work in to it. if you’re not comfortable with your average pace at mile 8 then it aint going to happen. if you can hit your average at mile 8, then slowly increase through mile 22, then you have a shot. after 22 it’s katy bar the door - all guts from there.
For what it’s worth, I’ve run 3:03 in Portland and 3:07 in Boston, I average about 39 min in a flat 10K and 1:26 in a flat half marathon. I’ve found that running at least 2 runs over 22 miles within the last 5 weeks leaves me in the best condition. I also found doing a 13 mile training run at race pace was a good test ( you should feel very comfortable).
I echo the other comments about having realistic goals and starting out slow. My first marathon left me crawling (literally Julie Moss style) due to unrealistic expectations. Have fun, it’s a great high.
Thanks to all for the good feedback – hard as it is to hear.
I’ve really only been this active for the past two years. During that time, I’ve consistently set reasonable goals with some stretch, achieved them, and used that to jump off to higher goals. I’m amazed at how far I’ve come, and if I started off with the goal to be where I am now, I probably never would have made it. I have taken that lesson to heart in training, in business, and many other parts of my life. When people ask me why I do triathlons, that’s the lesson I reply with.
When I put together my goals and training plan for the year, 3:30 was my goal time for the marathon. I’m confident that if I stick to my training plan I can make that goal with some room to spare. And if I continue to build on my past successes, that I’ll eventually finish in 3:10 or even better.
But there’s a part of me that yearns for a blowout goal. Where I’m likely to fail. Because that part of me finds it a lot more satisfying to push it to the limit and fail than to crank out the continuous achievement of small incremental successes. There’s something mechanical and passionless in the discipline of increments. The achievements that I’m most proud of are times when I’ve pushed myself well beyond my limits to accomplish something I didn’t think I could.
So that’s what I have to decide. Do I want to succeed at 3:30, then at 3:20, then at 3:10, giving my body time to adapt and develop? That’s the logical answer. Or do I want to start on a workout schedule that could lead me to a 3:10 marathon and risk injury during training or failure during the race? That’s what I’m wrestling with now.
Here my $.02… I was in a similiar situation before the Vermont City marathon thinking I could run sub-3:10. I completed 4 months of 40+miles a week. I completed the following prep-races: Feb '03: 5mi in 31:56 (~6:24/mi), Mar '03: 10k in 38:50 (~6:15/mi), Apr '03: 1/2 marathon(very hilly) in 1:29(~6:48). I did tempo runs of up to 1hr of tempo @ 6:30/mi pace or better. I actually thought that a sub 3hr was possible if everything went right. I ended up struggling to a 3:32 in May. I went out in a 1:32 and back in 2hrs, most of that was in the last 4 miles running 10 minute miles struggling not to cramp up. My suggestion is to take your 1/2 marathon time add 10% and shot to go out at the 1/2 point at that time then see what happens. Good luck…
Pick a realistic goal and run the first half of the race at that pace. If you’re able to, pick it up in the second half. Unless you’re an elite (and have a huge mileage base), racing beyond your abilities in a marathon is suicide and can make for a very long day.