When referring to sex and Title IX I think it’s appropriate. When referring to the participation in sports I will gladly use MtF and won’t misgender (at least not intentionally) and will use their decided upon name. But we can’t tiptoe around everything, when discussing sex-based rights it’s helpful to use proper sex identifiers.
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It’s not tip-toeing. It’s saying it while still being polite.
And table stakes for the discussion here.
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Yeah, I think this is the right outcome.
I just wish the administration wasn’t just going after competitive sports; they are going after everything related to trans people. And it’s only been 3 weeks.
Someone already used the word “reality”, as if it’s something that someone simply made up in their minds.
That is what concerns me.
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Both of my kids are in college now, so were in school through most of the transition. Both of their takes are nobody gives a shit, just be whoever you are, which sounds like social acceptance to me.
Well said.
For sports and child hormone therapy too? The examples that I said?
Furthermore, this does not address “the more people learn about [these ideas] the less they like them”.
Thanks for the n=2 though
Sport is one of the pillars that “rules” should matter. And this is where I think the biggest issue arises. If you then state that, is there potential for people to assume you aren’t now “accepting” of others. We should all be ok that we set rules in some areas of life and not so much rules in other areas and it shouldn’t turn into an “inclusion” debate imo (I’ve not been closely following what is or isn’t happening to trans-community outside of sport for full disclosure within new adminstration with any “rules” in that sector of life).
I don’t think either one of them thinks transgender females should be playing sports as women on college teams. I’d be surprised if either one of them has ever thought about kids transitioning.
You’re welcome.
I think this is why a lot of people who have no issues with trans people don’t think transgender women should be competing against females. There is obviously the issue of fairness that comes into play.
Some data if interested.
Americans’ Complex Views on Gender Identity and Transgender Issues | Pew Research Center(ages%2018%20to,too%20far%20in%20this%20regard.
This is interesting and there’s some point below, but to be very clear I’m speaking about the changes in public opinion, not a momentary snapshot. For civil rights/gay rights it tracked fairly upward in acceptance. For trans rights, especially in sports/childhood transitions it is becoming less accepted, not more.
It’s debatable what exactly is causing the pushback, and if it’s a momentary blip or a directional change.
Six-in-ten U.S. adults say that whether a person is a man or a woman is determined by their sex assigned at birth. This is up from 56% one year ago and 54% in 2017. No single demographic group is driving this change, and patterns in who is more likely to say this are similar to what they were in past years.
Different poll:
I think those oppossed to transgender rights will have the same problem racists and homophobes had. Once it’s OK for them to integrate fully in the schools and are accepted, kids grow up being friends with them and not viewing them as others. That tends to cut down on the bigotry.
You’re missing a bigger point that I can cite even just in this thread. Society has not yet accepted all the issues that the trans rights movement is pushing. There is a lot of very fair debate and a lot of name calling on both sides.
In the post I’m replying to you call those who disagree bigots and compare them to racists an homophobes. And yet the very rules of this forum require that a transgender person be referred to as their stated gender, calling them by the wrong pronouns is ground for dismissal from the forum. See the asymmetry?
You can’t win over those who disagree by insulting them, then legislating against them insulting you.
Adding that yes, historically integrating into society has led to greater acceptance, however the two issues of sports and childhood treatments have found LESS acceptance with greater integration. That was my original point.
I have two daughters, and I too can say that this a non-issue to them. They have absolutely no problem having transgender friends, using requested pronouns, etc. None of their friends talk about false realities, or “ramming your ideals down people’s throats”.
And to the point about that study about society accepting or not accepting transgender people: I am so glad that scientific facts are not decided by popular vote amongst the population.
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Here’s the issue I see. And I fully understand and appreciate the fairness in sport argument.
I respect there are ranging views on this, so I am not going to tell someone how they should feel about Trans people. But there are many people in society who are willing to accept and embrace them as whole people who desire and need love and acceptance. There is also a very large and vocal group that go overboard with the need to belittle and demonize them.
Since they are a small population, there isn’t the civil unrest and outrage that we have historically seen with other marginalized populations or communities. But the disproportionate assault on them has seemed to necessitate a somewhat disproportionate response to fight back on their behalf.
Well said.
That’s the point I was trying to make. It’s the same thing with deportations that are going on. Of course we must apply our laws, heck I’m a first-generation immigrant myself. But do we have to be cruel about it? Do we have to demonize people? Why can’t we just be empathetic to these marginalized groups?
And it’s even worse when you encounter people on social media who are just giddy about the cruelty these groups are being subjected to.
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Tl;dr - It’s a wedge issue
Ahh. Very productive reply to a debate you initiated.
I’m not missing it, I’m just not addressing it, as you would apparently like me to. Hence you’re reading things into my posts that I’m not saying (e.g. that someone who is opposed to transgener women in female sports is a bigot).
To you this is clearly a bigger issue. I’m just talking about young people accepting trangender people in general as friends and such. Most of them probably given zero shits about sports or transitioning.
This is a point that we can agree on, largely.