I don’t know how you expect to motor fast with a plain black chainring -
.
Small black rings for training, big rings with rainbow stripes for the races.
Bumping this thread for updates results
I’m getting nervous that the first new bike I bought in 15 years (P Series) is slow lol
😳
.
Bumping this thread for updates results
I’m getting nervous that the first new bike I bought in 15 years (P Series) is slow lol
😳
A few things. I did many baseline runs with very repeatable results.
Just got new wheels for the next step. Waiting for new tires
Weather here has NOT been cooperative. I have not rode outdoor in a week.
I aero tested a guy 9 daya ago. He came to Montreal on his way to IM Boulder 70.3. Found him a few watts and he went off and won the 35-39AG in Boulder on…yes you
got it … a P series.
Very cool. I have a 2020 P-Series that I’ve slowly upgraded over the years. Fully hidden and internal cables, aero cockpit, the works. A very capable bike and I’m interested to see how it tests and compares.
What aero cockpit did you get? Still have the Zipp Vuka stock basebar and spacers, have been looking at the TriRig Alpha One as an upgrade, but it’s a good chunk of money.
I have 0 data on it but I never thought basebar would be significant. Maybe I need to prove it to myself. I could move PD basebar from Scott or invest in a reasonable cost basebar. Basebar are not easy ABBA testing so I must be sure my data is repeatable day to day which is has been in the past.
Now that I look at the cervelo basebar (zipp) I am not too excited.
Especially for easy position changes, I feel like the basebar/spacer combination makes a big difference - what reasonable cost basebars are you looking at?
I have 0 data on it but I never thought basebar would be significant. Maybe I need to prove it to myself. I could move PD basebar from Scott or invest in a reasonable cost basebar. Basebar are not easy ABBA testing so I must be sure my data is repeatable day to day which is has been in the past.
Now that I look at the cervelo basebar (zipp) I am not too excited.
Especially for easy position changes, I feel like the basebar/spacer combination makes a big difference - what reasonable cost basebars are you looking at?
I wasn’t planning on upgrading. I do have the PD Aeria on the Scott so I could move that over. Part of this is trying to get something as fast on low $. I struggle with the idea that the basebar will make a big enough difference. There are many other places I could see money better spent. But we’ll see. I am a sucker for “oooooooh, let’s try that”.
The ASC43 extensions will be tested. They are super comfortable and I do think comfort is a big deal for me. Otherwise I end up with weird hand/arm positions when I am suffering.
Agreed that there is likely minimal difference between stock basebars. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t room for improvement. Getting the brake levers centered in front of the legs could make a big difference. I made a set of 30cm basebars on a passion project but couldn’t figure out a protocol to test them with the same aero ski setup. Regardless, there is no reason to think brake levers stuck out in open air should be faster than in-line brake levers.
I get it that 30cm bars on a stock bike will turn off more customers than it wins, but seems like some company would make them aftermarket.
Very cool. I have a 2020 P-Series that I’ve slowly upgraded over the years. Fully hidden and internal cables, aero cockpit, the works. A very capable bike and I’m interested to see how it tests and compares.
What aero cockpit did you get? Still have the Zipp Vuka stock basebar and spacers, have been looking at the TriRig Alpha One as an upgrade, but it’s a good chunk of money.
I have a Vision Metron TFA base bar with an FSA compression nut that let me run my front brake cable through the fork. On top of the Metron base bar is the AeroCoach Ascalon extensions. All brake and Di2 cables are hidden, looks pretty clean.
Agreed that there is likely minimal difference between stock basebars. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t room for improvement. Getting the brake levers centered in front of the legs could make a big difference. I made a set of 30cm basebars on a passion project but couldn’t figure out a protocol to test them with the same aero ski setup. Regardless, there is no reason to think brake levers stuck out in open air should be faster than in-line brake levers.
I get it that 30cm bars on a stock bike will turn off more customers than it wins, but seems like some company would make them aftermarket.
I have some road bike width testing in the fall. Maybe after I see that. That being said, their hands are 100% of the at the width of the bar. In TT it should be 0. I struggle even more to believe this makes a measurable difference.
Main purpose of this project is to prove an entry level bike can be competitive vs a high end setup.
And to get me off my rim brake bike although Nick is making me have second thoughts
Agreed that there is likely minimal difference between stock basebars. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t room for improvement. Getting the brake levers centered in front of the legs could make a big difference. I made a set of 30cm basebars on a passion project but couldn’t figure out a protocol to test them with the same aero ski setup. Regardless, there is no reason to think brake levers stuck out in open air should be faster than in-line brake levers.
I get it that 30cm bars on a stock bike will turn off more customers than it wins, but seems like some company would make them aftermarket.
I have some road bike width testing in the fall. Maybe after I see that. That being said, their hands are 100% of the at the width of the bar. In TT it should be 0. I struggle even more to believe this makes a measurable difference.
Main purpose of this project is to prove an entry level bike can be competitive vs a high end setup.
And to get me off my rim brake bike although Nick is making me have second thoughts
Yep, that was the same challenge I found. The brake levers on TT bars aren’t terribly optimized, at least to the eye, and at the very least present a fair bit of frontal area. I’d bet moving them from fully outside to in front of the legs is ~5w. Maybe a good way to test is on a track with no actual levers, just making a cardboard lever facsimile and taping it to the normal position then to the infront of legs position, although you’d still have the rest of the extensions poking out.
There was a GCN video that showed narrower bars (I think down to 38) were a few seconds faster as they got narrower on a 10m TT. I think there will be a jump in gains once the outside of the hands get inside the outermost points of the legs, in line with the knees. All of this can be ruined by the common ‘chicken wing’ that guys sometimes get with narrow bars.
Tangent, but an entry level bike can def be made competitive for <$1k. There’s a guy at our local races who regularly gets dropped doing 300w+. Cannondale SuperSix with all the tricked out wheels, but sits bolt upright with every spacer under the positive drop stem. Got the power, got the bike, just racing like he’s on Zwift.
I would love to see some pics too with your process. Any chance you plan or were planning on doing pictures with this process?
I would love to see some pics too with your process. Any chance you plan or were planning on doing pictures with this process?
I can. I still haven’t changed anything so I will snap better pics before I do.
I have been doing lots of verification of repeatability while collecting all the pieces.
Wheels, tires, extensions and drivetrain bits are all collected.
I have done baselines in 2 locations since I move from one place to the other frequently.
I wasn’t planning on upgrading. I do have the PD Aeria on the Scott so I could move that over. Part of this is trying to get something as fast on low $. I struggle with the idea that the basebar will make a big enough difference. There are many other places I could see money better spent. But we’ll see. I am a sucker for “oooooooh, let’s try that”.
The ASC43 extensions will be tested. They are super comfortable and I do think comfort is a big deal for me. Otherwise I end up with weird hand/arm positions when I am suffering.
Very fair, I also don’t expect the basebar itself to make a huge difference, but am trying to set myself up for ease of testing/modifications going forward. I’m maxed out with the stock spacers and need to go a bit higher, as well as playing around with BTA which would have me now buying more spacers, bridges, clamps etc. for a few hundred bucks.
Before I go down that path, I figured I may as well invest in something more flexible by design like the TriRig Alpha.
Very excited to follow along your upgrades and testing though!
We tested some base bars on a Plasma 3. There are base bars which are measurable faster than others.
We tested some base bars on a Plasma 3. There are base bars which are measurable faster than others.
Which tested fastest ?
Where did you test (tunnel, velodrome…) ?
With or without rider ?
Just sharpen you view and look at pictures.
All done in a velodrome with the same rider and positions as close as it was possible.
Eager to hear how this is coming along!
Eager to hear how this is coming along!
Kind of crazy
My plan was to start with the stock PSeries and benchmark it against my Plasma. Done.
The Pseries was slower BUT tires were not identical and there were small elements I wanted to change to make them identical. Slowly, evetually ending up in what I thought would be the end configuration. I used a Giro Aerohead for all these tests.
I had tons of rides and good data, very reproducible day to day which is key to this experiment. I was well on my way
Then all hell broke loose. I got a call last week of June to see if I could go to Europe to test a new helmet and two new wheels for the Tour. “Deal, but you provide me a bike that I can play with”. So I got a fully loaded team bike, Dura Ace, 5000TT tires, disc wheel, full team setup. I sent my coordinates and the mechanics built me a bike. I had it for a week and 7AM to 10AM to test on my own daily. Dang ! I forgot my Aerohead :-). So I took a team Ekoi helmet and decided this was my new baseline.
I did bring my skinsuit with me. So I tested a few Jerseys I use regularly and I tested with the skinsuit with the team helmet. Then they gave me the new Ekoi helmet so I tested that. I now had, in theory, my position on a WT level bike with a great helmet. Needless it say it was WAAAAAY faster than my initial tests. Lots of runs, lots of collected data, recorded road vibration data…This was my #EuropeanTrip1BestCDA. Now I needed to go back to Canada and reproduce that number on the Scott and PSeries
Somehow the helmets ended up in my suitcase home, GP5000 TT tires…funny how that is…
So now I had a “target” of what would be “the best”.
First thing I did getting home was put the 5000TT tires on my never ridden Premier tactical wheels acquired for this experiment. I put on the skinsuit. I put on the new helmet and got VERY close to my European number. So I am very confident I will get the two bikes extremely close.
I have all the data, it’s all well documented, I just need to finish all the testing, probably go back to the initial configurations and get some intermediate points. For example, the first PSeries had the crappy Vittoria tires. The Scott had GP4000. I have GP5000s for the Scott, I want to try those. I want to document how bad those Vittorias are. I think they make Gatorskins look fast…My initial tests were with the Aerohead, I now use and Ekoi, so I will probably do a comparison test for that.
But my confidence that the Scott, the PSeries and my “European bike” are close is very high.
Once I get them identical, I will try a few position tweaks and then go back to Europe and confirm against the team bike.
Side note, I am also testing those conti tires that may save watts at yaw. So I test my premier tactical with GP5000TT against a DT Swiss wheel with the Aero111 tires. I had to do another change to my protocol so I could get changes in yaw. I do a East-West out and back and a North-Sound out and back. To get different yaw. Wind has not been too strong yet.
Oh my, thanks a lot!
Really hope you don’t suddenly sign a nda with someone related to these tests before you get to publish the results 