They (Ironman) need to instantaneously calculate your virtual age graded score and have your “current” age graded overall position in the app while the race is going on. It’s good for family and friends and it’s good for the athlete as soon as they cross the line as they await rolldown.
When I eventually got to my phone around 1 hrs after crossing, I got my “usual numbers” and started calculating my virtual time. Then I eyeballed all the age groups 18-69 quickly to guestimate where I may be in the rolldown (for my guestimates I just used 1.0 for all the age groups below 40, and then from 40 onwards, I just substracted 15, 20, 25, 30, 35 min roughly from the times of each 5 year age group to get a “feel” for how many were ahead of me (I roughly converged that there were around 50 ahead of me which ended up being the exact number)…I didn’t need to know their exact times, just that they were AHEAD, so this course calculation was fine in real time.
But, I am formerly a math type of guy, who runs a data type of company, so even low on blood sugar, its what I do anyway.
But just having your age graded time with “latest provisional age graded position” would create a decent amount of excitement from the finish time all the way to actual rolldown.
Normally when I open my phone post race there is a message from my wife with all my stats (she also watches the app endlessly since I ended IM Switzerland 2011 in an ambulance but she was not using any app back then and had no clue I was not not crossing timing mats until the hospital called her and that was at 5:30 pm which was 10:30 race time by when I should have been done, so when she got the call she thought it was from the finish line…that’s a different story). In any case I am sure that the family and friends would like to see the virtual placement in the app
Anyone know approximately how far the other European 70.3 event rolled down? It looks like Muskoka went past 50’s overall placing. But I am just curious if it rolled more because Nice is farther away. I am in the UK and doing Swansea this weekend, wondering if I hang around if I am in the top 50, 60, 100, etc. There are 35 slots and usually these races are pretty competitive.
Agree, I’d say this is the single biggest thing in my mind. It should be right in the app, alongside all other stats, updated in realtime.
It was funny a month ago, when my wife did a race and had a bunch of non-triathlete (but sporty) friends/family watching, trying to explain slot allocation/rolldown/etc… and virtually everyone was like “This is the dumbest and most opaque non-tech assisted process ever.”
I think simply having that list of virtual age graded score/position in the app would solve so much of this. Heck, they could even go a step further and allow you (as an athlete) to indicate post-race that you want a slot, probably speeding up things even more. Note that I actually don’t think doing pre-race slot desires is a good way, as people change their mind for all sorts of reasons.
Either way, I think the new slot concept is good, but as always, I just want to see tech leveraged a little bit more, to make everyone’s life easier.
I think the age graded time and rank should be in the app, too, updated in real time. I can, however, think of a possible reason for choosing not to implement it. Imagine the following scenario:
Triathlete X thinks he had a good race, and picks up his phone as he’s chewing a post-race slice of pizza. He discovers that his current, provisional rank is 42. Knowing there are 55 slots, X makes a (very) little dance move and then goes on to call his loved ones and post on SoMe. But X doesn’t spend nearly as much time on the ST forum as he should, so he hasn’t fully understood how the new ranking and slot allocation works. When he turns up to collect his slot the day after, he learns that his age graded rank is now 71, and the final slot rolls down to 64! What?! X gets [fill inn], and goes on to [fill inn].
Yeah, I think just simplistic UI design with some aspect of ‘Provional/etc…’ overlaid on there, solves that.
No different than today already, when someone starts 30-40 minutes later at the very end of the swim waves, only to beat the entire podium after said podium has already finished.
My friend was 5th in 60-64. When I was in line to pay they called his name and his age graded was around 80th. It still rolled a number of people passed him.
If I look at this objectively all the top 5 from 18 to 69 were at awards to get their awards (minus a few). So we’re at 10x5 people = 50 who are onsite (or close to that) plus everyone else hanging around for a rolldown. My estimation is after they gave out the 1-3 single allocation per age group, there was still around 50 people hanging out for the 20 slots. For the women after the 1-3 allocation there were less women hanging out than slots available.
I would be interested to know what shook out in Sweden. From Canada the second week of Sep is the worst to travel with schools opening and sport activities starting up for kids and generally companies expecting people to be back at work and hitting the grind hard as “everyone is behind after summer and vacation season is over”. So its just hard to travel to Nice.
My guess is some of the same dynamic shakes out at Musselman this weekend . I would be surprised in the likes of Swansea if it rolls much past 50th given the proximity.
@dcrainmaker one more thing about having real time virtual. As I am math inclined even before the age graded results came up I was able to estimate how many people in each age group beat me, so I roughly knew I was sitting around 50th place even before the results went up. So I had “a little hope”. However, some people may have looked at their raw time, had no idea what it translated to in the overall age graded and just not bothered.
My friend who was 5th in 60-64 and 80 something age graded did have experience in the past gunning for Kona slot allocation in the old system. This guy was a 2:4x runner in Boston when we were 40, but kept missing Kona in the old system. He just saw himself in 80 something position and figured there was no chance and left 80th feels like 8th in the age group, which rarely rolled that far, but everyone forgets that other age groups it could roll to 30th on the day that top 2 in your age group takes slots so minimally you may have 5-8 of those 30 in the other age goup who don’t take the slot ahead of you on the virtual list.
In any case real time age graded times and position (and also by sport would be interesting), would make this really interesting for competitors and supporters and its really easy to implement. As you said with rolling start, you never really knew once you opened the app where you were until most people in an age group crossed a timing wire (split of final finish)
Absolutely, and I wold ask X to go read the manual. I was simply asking myself if there could be anything that made IM & sportsstats decide to wait until everyting is set, instead of a live update. It could be, or it could just be that they haven’t got it sorted yet.
Thanks Dev. That is helpful. I think you are spot on with the European slots likely not rolling that much since it’s a race next Year and so close for most people. I’ve never had much “luck” with roll down and was usually just bail because awards are usually so late (and I want to start driving home). I’ll see how I place overall and make the call.
@tri_thlete my view is just plan to leave at 6 pm. Stick around to the very end. If you are like me, in the old system the slots barely rolled in your age group, but in other age groups it rolled “way down”. It may be that several of those guys in the ‘other age groups’ don’t come to rolldown. and it may be that the 32 slots go to 45, and suddenly the 33 goes to 55, the 34 to 65 and the 35 to 105 because everyone is used to the old system (like my 2:4x Boston marathon friend from our 40’s who kept missing Kona in the old system and eyeballed things and just said “screw it” I have no chance). There could be many people like that. Having said that, from Ontario Canada, you’re getting on a transatlantic flight and minimally taking 7 days off work to adjust to jetlag and amotize the $$$$ invested. From UK you barely have 1 hrs direct flight to Nice from any major airport in UK, or you can hop in the car and do a road trip with your buddies/family, so slots are not going to roll as much as from Canada. I also don’t know when schools get started after summer in UK. In Canada, they are starting the exact week when you’d want to travel to Nice. Only so many people want to be “negligent parents” on the first week of school (HAHA)
Hey, you set the bar of what is possible. I looked at our splits and you’re seconds ahead of me on the swim and a few min on the bike and then a half hour ahead on the run. Which roughly means my cardio is not like my dad’s at this age (he has triple bypass when he was my age), and my run suckiness is not due to cardio but due to mechanical+lack of run training. But what you are doing is inspring to the rest of us. I’ll keep working my shuffle as “safely” as I can. Better to show up at start lines able to finish than blow my body apart in training and not even make it to the start line.
As we see in M60-64 its already a massive game of attrition with only 30 finishers out of 1500 in the field. But if everyone did like @Dancon7 we would have 150 finishers, but there is a reason everyone is not like @Dancon7
Just have them explain it at the athlete briefing . That should just about take care of it. Everyone goes to those, right?
As other have said, just slap a provisional tag in it and those who need to learn the system will learn one way or another.
The pdf type document has its benefits at the actual roll down ceremony though - since it’s all in one place and you can mentally do the math. One improvement could be to have a number placing beside the athlete names, just to make math easier
I was going to come on and say exactly this. It is really silly that all this info is not immediately on your phone in the app and a list of the age graded is right there if front of everyone to see(when official of course) This should be a minor programming issue, perhaps they should call the World Series of Poker and see who they had to do their app this year. It was unbelievable, 20k+ folks in some games and it instaniously shows where you are in placings, with chips(approx some of the time) and what table to move to immediately after your table breaks. This app took the tourney from the stone ages to the Jetsons in just this one year…
I’d given up on any thoughts of qualifying, local races in Boulder CO tend to be competitive throughout the AGs and I’m not getting on any AG podiums in 70.3 here…
the new qualifying has me going hm.
That makes sense and doesn’t at the same time. The new system seems confusing in some ways.
The Awards and Roll Down for Swansea starts at 6PM. Guessing it ends by 8-8:30 then I’d maybe make it home by midnight. I am in the 45 category (50 next Year). Almost every race, I leave because I think I’m so far off anyways. But maybe I’ll check it out depending how I place overall.
Schools mostly start first week of September in the UK, but taking a weekend to do Nice is probably acceptable. Marbella slots were very tough this year in all Euro races and a lot of Euro races have a ton of pointy end fast racers (ex pro or almost pro cyclists or Olympic Rowers, etc…).
Never raced in Boulder but the few races we have in Ontario and Quebec, I get close or on the age group podium with the same frequency I did at Wildflowers past in California, so usually on the outside looking in. Now in 60-64 with typically one slot in the old system its even harder, but with the new system, the slots are not based on finishers in the age group, but relative performances so as long as relative performance is good it can slot in with relative performances in other age groups and collectively we’re not dependent on one stud who wins our age group, but all the podiums (or near podiums) in all the age groups.
For people who are not the fastest in the age group, but in the relative mix but where there is typically one or two slots there is a better chance now as we’re not limited by the size of the age group anymore
. That should just about take care of it. Everyone goes to those, right?