My Equal Pay Peeps

The Coffee Shop
21

Are you watching the WNBA or the NWSL right now? I’m flipping in case you’re wondering.
Professional sports leagues are different from national teams, don’t you think… Professional league pay should be based on what the market demands.

This is the argument (at least in the legal filing) that the women are making.

Ie pay to market, and when I say market I am talking about the 501c filing from US soccer.

To be fair they are not going to extremes and asking for more money than the men, just a reasonable rate which is likely provable to be equal.

Maurice

Yea, but if you aren’t watching the WNBA right now, they shouldn’t be win their suit. At least according to DJRed, a very stable genius.

Are you, or anyone you know, supporting these women’s sports through ticket purchases, merchandise, or viewership?

Yes, I watched the women’s world cup and I know lots of other people that did. The women’s jersey is selling way more than the men’s.

So you watched an event that takes place once every four years and know the women’s jersey sells better than men’s.

Next time you’re at a soccer field note the jerseys young boy soccer fans are wearing. I’ll give you a hint, it’s not a USMNT jersey. There are far better players worldwide and those are the jerseys the boys are buying. So sure, the USWNT is NIKE’S best-selling jersey, but that’s because many other jersey’s are made by ADIDAS.

So because the Seattle Sounders sell a bunch of jerseys, the women’s national team shouldn’t be paid equally to the men, for some reason?

Ok, stable genius.

22

Ironically, it seems more than a little sexist to so easily believe that women are less capable than men of negotiating a contract in their own interests.
But here we are.

23

Not sure why this is such a big issue. Pay the women the same as the men. If you have to raise prices for womens games, charge advertisers more etc to make it come out the same then do it.

If you don’t get the same money, they take from the men and give it to the women. Its redistribution of wealth in the name of equality. It’s all the rage.

24

Not sure why this is such a big issue. Pay the women the same as the men. If you have to raise prices for womens games, charge advertisers more etc to make it come out the same then do it.

If you don’t get the same money, they take from the men and give it to the women. Its redistribution of wealth in the name of equality. It’s all the rage.

In this particular case it sounds like the money might be flowing in the other direction.

25

Ironically, it seems more than a little sexist to so easily believe that women are less capable than men of negotiating a contract in their own interests.
But here we are.

They signed a contract three years ago with various caveats, one of them being the legality of that contract. Both parties knew that it could and likely would be challenged.

It took the federal courts 3 years to simply rule that they could proceed, basically the case is precedent setting and has broad reaching implications outside of just a bunch of people who kick a ball around for a living.

Basically the federal courts didn’t want to or the case is so complex that they were unable to make a definitive ruling outside of “yeah you can pursue a labour dispute in civil court”

Not a lawyer, but that is my basic understanding.

Maurice

26

There is another side to this. My understanding is: Most of the men compete in professional leagues throughout the year and only join the national team for tournament or a few specific matches. This is in contrast to the women who are relying on the US team to support them competing throughout the year. The men don’t depend on US soccer for living expenses, just a stipend for their games played. It is a very different dynamic.

27

There is another side to this. My understanding is: Most of the men compete in professional leagues throughout the year and only join the national team for tournament or a few specific matches. This is in contrast to the women who are relying on the US team to support them competing throughout the year. The men don’t depend on US soccer for living expenses, just a stipend for their games played. It is a very different dynamic.

Yeah that’s my understanding too, the fact that the women get a salary and the men don’t seems to be left out of the equation or at least isn’t talked about in most media reports, so what they are arguing about are basically appearance and win bonuses for tournaments.

I think it’s true too that the men have a good bit more tournaments/matches than the women.

28

There is another side to this. My understanding is: Most of the men compete in professional leagues throughout the year and only join the national team for tournament or a few specific matches. This is in contrast to the women who are relying on the US team to support them competing throughout the year. The men don’t depend on US soccer for living expenses, just a stipend for their games played. It is a very different dynamic.

The alternative soccer salary and professional teams’ interests probably gives the men a better negotiating position as well.

If you have a vagina – and still identify as female – then you’ve probably never heard of a BATNA.

29

There is another side to this. My understanding is: Most of the men compete in professional leagues throughout the year and only join the national team for tournament or a few specific matches. This is in contrast to the women who are relying on the US team to support them competing throughout the year. The men don’t depend on US soccer for living expenses, just a stipend for their games played. It is a very different dynamic.

Yeah that’s my understanding too, the fact that the women get a salary and the men don’t seems to be left out of the equation or at least isn’t talked about in most media reports, so what they are arguing about are basically appearance and win bonuses for tournaments.

I think it’s true too that the men have a good bit more tournaments/matches than the women.

No debate, the women play or “work” way more than the men do, in terms of practice time and tournaments.

I’ll keep coming back to the market based mathematical argument. This is my opinion on what the case is about. To be fair, the women players and the lawyers/communications people have done a horrible job at “selling” that.

US soccer takes in about 100m$ per year, of which 50% (tv arrangements are included here) is marketing arrangements, 25% is gate (gross) and 25% is other.

In terms of marketing Nike funds directly about 25% they and others likely have a behind the scenes influence on this.

Gate numbers aren’t really clear, but lawyers with the inside numbers will figure that out pretty easily. Important to understand that when US men host say Mexico or Spain at 60 thousand fans a lot of the gate goes directly back out to star visitors(appearance fees etc)

Other sources include say 3rd party bonuses, donations etc. In terms of 3rd party bonuses (USOC, fifa) it’s pretty obvious that the women bring in more than the men.

30

Saw a story that some congresswomen are working on bills that will withhold govt. funds from the men’s 2026 world cup which will be in the US (and Mexico and Canada) unless the US men’s and women’s soccer teams have pay equity.

Article seemed to indicate it wasn’t really clear what these funds were.

If I was US soccer I’d just offer same appearance money, same win bonuses, no more salary and be done with it. Just make it equal.

31

Saw a story that some congresswomen are working on bills that will withhold govt. funds from the men’s 2026 world cup which will be in the US (and Mexico and Canada) unless the US men’s and women’s soccer teams have pay equity.

Article seemed to indicate it wasn’t really clear what these funds were.

If I was US soccer I’d just offer same appearance money, same win bonuses, no more salary and be done with it. Just make it equal.

Yeah how do you define equal? A lot of people seem upset by what FIFA pays out for Womens World Cup vs Mens… But as a percentage of income they pay a higher percentage to the women.

The US soccer team seems to have a fairly balanced payroll from what I have been able to read (was not always the case but with the latest contracts its supposedly a wash)

32

Saw a story that some congresswomen are working on bills that will withhold govt. funds from the men’s 2026 world cup which will be in the US (and Mexico and Canada) unless the US men’s and women’s soccer teams have pay equity.

Article seemed to indicate it wasn’t really clear what these funds were.

If I was US soccer I’d just offer same appearance money, same win bonuses, no more salary and be done with it. Just make it equal.

Yeah how do you define equal? A lot of people seem upset by what FIFA pays out for Womens World Cup vs Mens… But as a percentage of income they pay a higher percentage to the women.

The US soccer team seems to have a fairly balanced payroll from what I have been able to read (was not always the case but with the latest contracts its supposedly a wash)

I would define it as same amount of money for being called into camp, pro-rate by significance of tournament, same win bonuses, again pro-rated by the significance of tournament. Hash out the tournament levels beforehand.

And be done with it. Same money on the table for both. Equal work/equal pay for being in camp, participating in tournament, winning matches.

33

If I was US soccer I’d just offer same appearance money, same win bonuses, no more salary and be done with it. Just make it equal.

You misogynist bastard. They don’t have professional jobs to fall back on they need the same deal as men plus a salary to make things fair.

34

If I was US soccer I’d just offer same appearance money, same win bonuses, no more salary and be done with it. Just make it equal.

You misogynist bastard. They don’t have professional jobs to fall back on they need the same deal as men plus a salary to make things fair.

Yeah, I’d like to hear them try to make that argument.

35

Saw a story that some congresswomen are working on bills that will withhold govt. funds from the men’s 2026 world cup which will be in the US (and Mexico and Canada) unless the US men’s and women’s soccer teams have pay equity.

Article seemed to indicate it wasn’t really clear what these funds were.

If I was US soccer I’d just offer same appearance money, same win bonuses, no more salary and be done with it. Just make it equal.

It’s weird because US soccer only receives about 2% from the government, specifically about 2mil per year from the US Olympic fund as a by product of the women’s performance.

In terms of the World Cup, no way that US soccer is a big enough entity to manage that. Usually with big events like Olympics/World Cup etc you start up a separate entity/company/non profit etc to manage that…I think.

So, sounds like political grand standing by certain elements which are latching on to this. (Based on the fuzzy info available)

Basically if they withheld money FIFA would simply turn on a dime and move it elsewhere.

Maurice

36

If I was US soccer I’d just offer same appearance money, same win bonuses, no more salary and be done with it. Just make it equal.

You misogynist bastard. They don’t have professional jobs to fall back on they need the same deal as men plus a salary to make things fair.

Yeah, I’d like to hear them try to make that argument.

Watch and see

37

Saw a story that some congresswomen are working on bills that will withhold govt. funds from the men’s 2026 world cup which will be in the US (and Mexico and Canada) unless the US men’s and women’s soccer teams have pay equity.

Article seemed to indicate it wasn’t really clear what these funds were.

If I was US soccer I’d just offer same appearance money, same win bonuses, no more salary and be done with it. Just make it equal.

Yeah how do you define equal? A lot of people seem upset by what FIFA pays out for Womens World Cup vs Mens… But as a percentage of income they pay a higher percentage to the women.

The US soccer team seems to have a fairly balanced payroll from what I have been able to read (was not always the case but with the latest contracts its supposedly a wash)

It is being argued mathematically that it is currently unbalanced, both in terms of direct/indirect pay to the players and access to resources.

Having said that, one of the interesting elements is how much management or the org skim off the top in terms of bonuses, for example the men generated 16mil$ from FIFA but only received 6mil$ for player distribution.

Will be interesting to see what “the cut” is for the women’s win of 4mil$.

Maurice