Hi ST, I’m hoping some knowledgeable folks can help me out with some 2023 season decision making
I just finished my first full year of training, 6 months of running (marathon) and 6 months of triathlon (70.3 & IM). At my last 70.3 I was a top 3% runner and top 28% biker in my AG (my swim is hopelessly bad). I’d like to improve my bike time, given that it’s the longest leg and also that it’s slow relative to my run. Over the course of 2022 I worked with a coach 1:1 and was disappointed that my bike FTP increased only 10 watts, from 220 to 230 (3.5W/kg). So it would seem that triathlon training is not affecting my FTP much. Older ST threads seem to corroborate this, as I’ve read one must focus on cycling and stop other training, especially the run, in order to maximize FTP gains. Is this still consistent with current best practices?
Second, although I’m motivated to increase my FTP, I’m not happy about sacrificing 4-6 months of potential training/racing for focused training that may or may not yield significant results. I understand predicting outcomes of FTP-focused training is difficult; in 6 months I may get to 300W or 240W. Is it typical for new triathletes to focus on individual sports like cycling and develop FTP first? Or can I make similar progress with general triathlon training?
Third, I’m not a young person (35-39 age group); is it worth focusing on FTP at my age?
Fourth, I plan to continue splitting my seasons between a run focus and tri focus. If I were focus on improving my bike FTP for triathlon and then go into a predominantly running training block, would I be erasing my bike fitness gains?
As some additional background, my current 2023 plans are Escape from Alcatraz in June and IM California in October. I’m considering IM 70.3 Santa Cruz in September and possibly a spring 70.3/running race or a late season 70.3/running race, depending on if I focus my winter on FTP training.
Of the three, cycling is probably the easiest of the three to improve while doing the other two. As you log more saddle time the improvements will come.
Given your FTP is probably top15% for your AG, there are probably some gains to be made in your position, or equipment. This is not unexpected since you are new to the sport. Quick checklist:
-Have you had a professional bike fit?
-Do you have some of the basic aero equipment (deep front/rear disc, aero sleeved trisuit, aero helmet, etc.)?
-Are you able to ride the bike leg in aero (vs. sitting up occasionally due to discomfort)?
I’m guessing your pacing and nutrition are ok, or your run would probably be suffering.
3,5W/kg at 230W you are just 65kg, I think this explains most of it, you are a light rider.
But it will probably be easier within 6month to gain 5minutes in the water than gain 20W in FTP (according to your swiming lvl), 300W would put you at 4,5W that seems like a lot.
What is your marathon time? There is usually a some correlation between marathon time and FTP.
And like mentioned above on a bike leg Watts are good but you have to be aero.
Your FTP is 230 but what was your NP on IM?
Another option is to forget about FTP. Use Best Bike Split and put in information that gets you to your goal bike finish time (adjust watts up or down) and that will tell you required watts to hold. From there, build backwards from the race and start training to hold that wattage from shorter time intervals to longer intervals as you get closer to your race. You’ll need to determine what’s realistic for your time frame.
I used to run focus from November to February but still rode easy a few times a week.
After that, 20 weeks to get into good bike shape, it got better year after year.
Your second issue, no you don’t have to drop running for 4 to 6 months but you also shouldn’t drop cycling easy during your run focus.
Third, you’re not a spring chicken but you’re not old.
Fourth, you’re not going to lose your cycling gains completely but expect to lose some while you are not training it. Keep riding easy a few times a week year-round.
like this quote from this paper: http://www.owascoveloclub.com/Education_files/12%20Aerodynamics%20and%20Cycling.pdf
If you, as a triathlete or duathlete, are equally well trained at cycling and running, and have average running economy (1.6 kcal/kg/mile) and average cycling efficiency (19% gross cycling efficiency) your sustainable power output can be estimated from this simple equation: Power (watts) = 60 x Body weight (lb) / 10k run time (minutes).
How much biking are we walking about? How often were you biking? What was the structure of workouts? Intervals? You should be able to gain quite a bit more than 10 watts simply by biking more, even if it’s almost all at a pretty easy effort level. Adding in some structure should add plenty more watts.
I just finished my first full year of training, 6 months of running (marathon) and 6 months of triathlon (70.3 & IM). At my last 70.3 I was a top 3% runner and top 28% biker in my AG (my swim is hopelessly bad). I’d like to improve my bike time, given that it’s the longest leg and also that it’s slow relative to my run. You are only finishing your first full season. I wouldn’t throw out the idea of balanced training to make improvements until you’ve had a handful of seasons under your belt. I’d continue to train for swim, bike, and run for a full year straight and see how it goes. Maybe that coach’s approach did not work for you and another approach will.
We need some more info. How much riding per week? How much running? Do you have a background in running before this past year?
You can always focus on the bike without dropping your running and swimming to nothing or very little. Remove the intensity workouts from your run training for a month or two and do more bike intervals or add extra saddle time.
One more question you might not want to hear. Why not improve your swim?
I would not stop swimming and running to develop bike fitness.
FTP gains don’t come overnight (after initial overall fitness gains), contrary to what the internet generally says, they take hard work over a long period of time. There also is more to bike fitness than FTP, so don’t get too hung up in the number, it’s just one reference point.
Raise your bike volume (and be very consistent), do subthreshold intervals twice a week, throw in some vo2 intervals in a couple months, and you’ll have seen FTP and overall bike fitness gains in 6 months.
like this quote from this paper: http://www.owascoveloclub.com/Education_files/12%20Aerodynamics%20and%20Cycling.pdf
If you, as a triathlete or duathlete, are equally well trained at cycling and running, and have average running economy (1.6 kcal/kg/mile) and average cycling efficiency (19% gross cycling efficiency) your sustainable power output can be estimated from this simple equation: Power (watts) = 60 x Body weight (lb) / 10k run time (minutes).
The swim is usually the most difficult to improve. If you want to get into the top 3% overall in your age group like your run, I would focus on the swim first. You can gain all the fitness you want on the bike/run, but if your swim is still “hopelessly bad” it will take away a lot of that fitness you gained on the bike/run.
At your age, no you aren’t old, you could find a lot of gains with the right S&C program. It can impact your fitness in all three disciplines and lessen the potential from injury in training.
I hope this helps and if you have any questions, please let me know.
First, thank you to all who responded, you’ve given me a lot to consider. My replies are below in the next few posts:
Given your FTP is probably top15% for your AG
This is surprising to hear as my perception is that it is low.
Have you had a professional bike fit?
Yes, but I’ve had some bad luck with two fitters. I made a seperate thread on my bike fit here.
Do you have some of the basic aero equipment (deep front/rear disc, aero sleeved trisuit, aero helmet, etc.)?
Yes to all. But my trisuit is basic though with no ribbing, etc. I also do not have aero socks or calf guards. I’m considering these upgrades for next year.
Are you able to ride the bike leg in aero (vs. sitting up occasionally due to discomfort)?
I’m still working on my bike fit but have done 4-5 hour rides in IM training.
I’m guessing your pacing and nutrition are ok, or your run would probably be suffering.
No issues here to date, although I’m looking to increase my sodium and glucose (~1500mg & 90g per hour, respectively).
What is your marathon time? There is usually a some correlation between marathon time and FTP.
I’ve done one marathon at 2:52 on a hilly course at elevation (4,000ft; I live at sea level).
Your FTP is 230 but what was your NP on IM?
Unfortunately I didn’t do the IM I was training for this year because I got covid 10 days before race day. But I was targeting 170-180w or low 130bpm. My NP for my last 70.3 was 184w and my last FTP test was a week later (230w).
can’t speak to the run but for swim the answer is a hard no, you don’t have to stop swimming. Good try.
love,
in charge of fishtwitch
Well, darn lol. As someone who’s literally swam in a circle while navigating a buoy and crashed into other swimmers head on, I suppose I should focus on swimming too
How much biking are we walking about? How often were you biking? What was the structure of workouts? Intervals? You should be able to gain quite a bit more than 10 watts simply by biking more, even if it’s almost all at a pretty easy effort level. Adding in some structure should add plenty more watts.
~4x/week (+/-1). Did all kinds of workouts and had a coach. My run training block ended in June and by the end of September my FTP improved 10w with balanced triathlon training.
We need some more info. How much riding per week? How much running? Do you have a background in running before this past year?
In triathlon training I was doing 4 rides/week and 3 runs/week. I ran cross country (8k) and track (800 & 1500m) in college. I was only OK at the NCAA D3 level. My last race was in 2006 and I never seriously trained to race again until last year.
One more question you might not want to hear. Why not improve your swim?
Answered above. For various reasons I’ve convinced myself I can’t improve.
However, there are several replies that mention swimming that may convince me to try harder to improve. I do understand the benefit of coming out of the water earlier, as I literally have to pass 1000 people in a 70.3 on the bike and run legs.
Based on your replies, you trained for triathlon for 3-4 months (June-September) and increased your ftp 10 watts. You’ve done one season of tri racing and you believe your swim cannot improve. Triathlon is a sport that takes years of consistent work to improve at the rate you expected in one season. Shift your mindset to the long game and be patient.
It took me about 4 years to get an FTP of ~230 (with a HS track and field background), equal to yours. I’d say I gained 20w each YEAR as a beginner triathlete. That’s a full 12 months of riding to go up 1 mph in my race results.
From my experience coaching athletes I’d be going into a 6mth block of bike focus.
1 or 2 swims a week as they’re great recovery. In your case those sessions would have a big technique focus
2 runs per week to maintain conditioning so you don’t get broken when you try to apply increased CV fitness to running
4 rides, big extensive focus
You simply don’t know what your ceiling is unless you try, but I’ve had 50w increases enough with enough people to be confident that there would be benefit for you dong a bike focus.
As long as you run enough to stay durable, running won’t suffer much if at all.
One of my athletes passed 1006 people at Kona. You do get a lot of slingshot draft that way but it’s easier to not have to go through so many.
