Let’s get another discussion going around the Muskoka events now that Tremblant 70.3 is done. I was a big proponent that this would be a great venue. I first raced there in 90 when it was Royal Lepage Canadian Series Champs, then 91 when it was nationals. 92 it was ITU world’s venue won by Simon Lessing and Michelle Jones.
From 1997 till around 2009 raced the old Muskoka long course which was 2k swim-55k bike and 15 run…one of the best distances to race the redline…when they added the Long Course 70.3 I heard it was hard as St. Croix and based on Crowie’s times at both venues, that was certainly the case when I did it in 2012. I have not had a chance to go back recently, but there are enough folks around here who can answer the latest and greatest. And I can get answers from the RD if you guys need me to, soo fire away.
I’ve been looking around for the confirmed start list for the PRO race. I’m going to be there on the day with a group of training buddies and I’d like to know who I have the potential opportunity to see race. I haven’t found anything published anywhere. Are these details that are easy to find typically?
Considering IM Muskoka, as it is still open. According to my Garmin from Muskoka 70.3 in 2013 the bike was 58.1 miles with 3408ft of gain (is that accurate?). If accurate, how does roughly 6800ft of gain over 112 miles compare to other Ironman courses? My Garmin also gave me 37 total feet of gain for Florida’s 112 bike.
I have a buddy doing his first 70.3 this year. We were looking at the past results for M30-34, and the winners were only doing like 36km/h (even once adjusting for the 94km route). The mont tremblant M30-34 winner did 41km/h on the bike, and MT seems to have a reputation for a tough bike as well.
So I guess my/our question is: what’s the deal with the bike course? Is it even hillier than IMMT, or is it always windy, or has there been bad weather the last couple years?
The only thing I have heard is Sanders mentioned he was doing the half in a post race interview at MT last weekend. The bib list has a few pros listed, no big names listed yet.
Muskoka has a lot more hills than Tremblant and unlike Tremblant, many of the hills have sharp turns at the bottom which means you have to scrub off a lot of speed on the descents. The conditions of the roads in Muskoka are also nowhere near as good as Tremblant. So yes, you can expect a significantly lower avg speed on the Muskoka bike course than the Tremblant bike course.
Thanks! That’s exactly the kind of detail we were looking for. Sounds like that has inspired him to do a course-drive in the car on Saturday. Is that a workable idea? Is it going to be swarming with bikes?
I have done muskoka 70.3 before and last year did IMMT. I find muskoka a much more challenging bike course. In Mont Tremblant there were sections where you can settle in a cruise for a while. In muskoka the hills are nonstop. You crest one and bam there is another in your face. Classic sawtooth course. This year doing both the 70.3 and the full in muskoka and excited to have them both in my resume. In the past having been able to say I did muskoka 70.3 and with people who know races they respect the toughness of the course. A real test and potential meltdowns are possible if you overcook the bike… It’s kind of a real shame the 70.3 was moved to July. Had a nice conversation with Mirinda a couple years ago because the sept timing of the past races gave a good test to them just a month out from Kona. I have heard it was a favourite of Crowie for the same reason.
You can definitely do a course recon by car. The highway sections have wide shoulders so passing cyclists is not a problem. You will have to be more careful on the narrower more hilly/windy backroads which make up about half the bike course.
I have a buddy doing his first 70.3 this year. We were looking at the past results for M30-34, and the winners were only doing like 36km/h (even once adjusting for the 94km route). The mont tremblant M30-34 winner did 41km/h on the bike, and MT seems to have a reputation for a tough bike as well.
So I guess my/our question is: what’s the deal with the bike course? Is it even hillier than IMMT, or is it always windy, or has there been bad weather the last couple years?
The Muskoka 70.3 course is one of the slowest out there for several reasons:
Obviously it’s long at ~94 km. Coupled with the other factors that make it a slow course, average power is significantly lower than a fast 90 km course.It’s very hilly with well over 1,000 m (3,000 ft) of elevation gain, mostly in the form of unrelenting sharp climbs and descents (“sawtooth” terrain).Sections of the course are on rough roads with lots of chipseal. Testing by STer rruff suggested that chipseal is ~1-2 km/h slower than normal asphalt.The rough roads and chipseal not only directly reduce your speed by impacting Crr, but probably also have some adverse affect on the power you can sustain due to the vibration.There are several turns that require hard braking.Muskoka 70.3 used to be in September with temperatures typically in the low teens Celsius at the start of the bike. That means higher air density and tire rolling resistance. The new July date should be a fair bit warmer.
For all these reasons, only a handful of pro men have cracked 40 km/h average speed on the Muskoka 70.3 course.
I have a buddy doing his first 70.3 this year. We were looking at the past results for M30-34, and the winners were only doing like 36km/h (even once adjusting for the 94km route). The mont tremblant M30-34 winner did 41km/h on the bike, and MT seems to have a reputation for a tough bike as well.
So I guess my/our question is: what’s the deal with the bike course? Is it even hillier than IMMT, or is it always windy, or has there been bad weather the last couple years?
The Muskoka 70.3 course is one of the slowest out there for several reasons:
Obviously it’s long at ~94 km. Coupled with the other factors that make it a slow course, average power is significantly lower than a fast 90 km course.It’s very hilly with well over 1,000 m (3,000 ft) of elevation gain, mostly in the form of unrelenting sharp climbs and descents (“sawtooth” terrain).Sections of the course are on rough roads with lots of chipseal. Testing by STer rruff suggested that chipseal is ~1-2 km/h slower than normal asphalt.The rough roads and chipseal not only directly reduce your speed by impacting Crr, but probably also have some adverse affect on the power you can sustain due to the vibration.There are several turns that require hard braking.Muskoka 70.3 used to be in September with temperatures typically in the low teens Celsius at the start of the bike. That means higher air density and tire rolling resistance. The new July date should be a fair bit warmer.
For all these reasons, only a handful of pro men have cracked 40 km/h average speed on the Muskoka 70.3 course.
One more reason for the slowness is T1. You get out of the water and there is this massive climb to run up to the top of the Deerhurst resort parking lot. Probably most age groupers spike their power to 400-500W (depending on weight) before they even get on the bike. The run to T1 is not super long, but slow. Also while the weather might be faster with a July temp on the bike, it may result in slower run times.
Also people should remember that the full IM course is not exactly 2x the 70.3. The first out and back to the main loop you do only once and in the full IM, you do the loop 2x.
Anything sub 5 on the bike would be impressive, to throw a number out there maybe 3.5 w/kg? Fwiw I’ve ridden tremblant 70.3 and muskoka 70.3 at very similar power on the same equipment and tremblant was 16 min faster.
Run course will be very weather dependent. They have flattened it from previous versions, still a few decent hills in it, but it’s very exposed so sun/wind could have a big impact.
I could be wrong but my guess is 9:45 in either of those age groups puts you on the podium.
I had a 2:35 bike split at Muskoka and rode a 2:18 at the 70.3 WC at Tremblant. Factoring in the extra 2.5 miles at Muskoka there is probably a 10-12 min difference. At the IM distance I’d think any bike time under 5:15 at Muskoka would put you in a good position for the run.
