I’d love to hear some critiques of this computer animation that they say is based on all the latest swim science. It is a very clever and useful product, for sure. What I noticed is that the elbow is not as high on the pull as I would have expected.
Mr. Swim Smooth
I see what you are saying about the catch. However, the ‘correct’ high elbow catch hurts my shoulders and I have to limit the amount of time I pull that way. They do mention that the swim technique shown by Mr. Smooth is the best technique for intermediate swimmers/triathletes. That’s an important caveat and it’s absolutely true that us triathletes can’t/shouldn’t swim like the elites (ie. at least stroke rate and kick rate if not mechnicals too)
it looks useful to me.
Thank you for posting this. The frontal view is really helpful to me as I had been struggling to visualize the proper amount of rotation.
Wow, I finally got a chance to peek into this site, and I’m highly impressed. Not only because this is the way I coach, but how extensive this site is, even for advanced swimmers. It really solidifies what I have been hammering into the poor souls of the technique lane at the TCSD swims.
Some of my favorite parts:
Kick - “I’m a triathlete, I don’t have to kick” - Love this one.
6 beat kick, opposite leg kicking down, when arm enters, then same leg kicks when arm is in the middle of the catch (pull). Seriously, click this link. http://www.swimsmooth.com/kick_adv.html
Two most common mistakes I see in the kick, are knee bend and flexing the foot. Correct it: Kick from the hip, and let the pressure of the water point your toe. If you put too much effort into pointing your feet, not only will they get a cramp, it probably means you are too tight. Which then leads to body position errors (tight legs sink you). “Triathletes, you’re not looking for propulsion!”
Forces/Pressure - Simple: If you want to move forward, you have to push the water back. Not sideways, not hour glass, no S curves. Back. Changing the angle of the wrist and forearm to keep that elbow “high” will keep the water moving back. (I hate the term “high elbow” because most people don’t understand it - elbow points towards the side of the pool, rather than the bottom.) This starts from a proper shoulder width entry, not hitting/crossing that center line.
This site is super helpful for me as a coach. I’m always thinking about different verbiage when an athlete of mine isn’t “getting it.” Sometimes all it takes is explaining it in a different way.
Ah, the swim pyramid. This is how I structure my technique sessions. Only having an hour, I can’t get to everything, but generally I start with body position (kicking drills) then move to rotation drills (ah, the dreaded no arm roll/core drill, you know you love it!) and end with one of the level 3-4 items (front quadrant swimming…been using that since 8th grade swim camp!, catch setup, or entry) Start from the back and move forward.
http://www.swimsmooth.com/hierarchy.html
Now, with all that said, the internet cannot be your only swim tool. How do you know if you putting pressure in the wrong direction? How do you know if you are “dropping your elbow”? How do you know if your timing is off?
Hire a coach.
One who will get in the water with you.
Doesn’t look like they have a privacy policy (the “see our pivacy policy” link links to their licence agreement). I won’t be giving them my email.
Thanks guys, glad you’re finding Mr Smooth useful.
All the feedback we’ve had on Mr Smooth has been amazingly positive, many swimmers find that simply watching a great stroke in action rubs off positively on their swimming. Many have reported swimming PBs as a direct consequence. e.g. http://www.tritalk.co.uk/...iewtopic.php?t=59655
Mr Smooth’s catch has turned out to be a hot topic of discussion! It’s true we deliberately chose not to make his catch too extreme - the short answer being that we believe it isn’t useful to teach extreme EVF positions to non-elite swimmers. You can read the longer answer here: http://www.swimsmooth.com/aboutmrsmoothcatch.html
Gordonra, that’s great that you’re finding all the new material useful to your coaching. Why not join our coaches network? It’s a great way to share ideas, knowledge and experiences with other coaches: http://www.swimsmooth.com/network
Doesn’t look like they have a privacy policy (the “see our pivacy policy” link links to their licence agreement). I won’t be giving them my email.
Our apologies for that, I’ve just had our web team correct this link. It should be fixed by the time you read this.
Cheers!
A couple of thoughts I had were…
a) it would be useful to get a version with a 2-beat etc kick.
b) the elbow seemed quite low on hand entry, and it almost looks as if the whole forearm is entering at the same time.
b) the elbow seemed quite low on hand entry, and it almost looks as if the whole forearm is entering at the same time.
Why shouldn’t it? If the forearm is not doing this, then the arm has a downward component that isn’t very helpful. I, for one, enter the water with a nearly straight arm and extend it straight forward as I complete my roll onto that side.
very interesting product. but they only got it about 75% right. one important oversight: there is no optimal freestyle swim stroke. there is a somewhat optimal freestyle sprinting swim stroke. and there is a somewhat optimal distance freestyle stroke.
but they’re not the same.
just as if there was a “Mr. Run Smooth”, he would run with a visibly different stride and technique if he was running 100m sprint on the track, vs. running a marathon. but this demo software overlooks these differences.
"MONITORING
The software may be monitored for the purpose of identifying unauthorised use or software piracy and as a basis for termination of one or many Software licenses."
I’m out
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I noticed that when the stroke rate gets down under 30 that the recovery becomes so slow it’s not realistic or possible. I know you were modeling this and simply slowed down the frame rate, but allowing stroke rates that result in impossible swim form should probably be eliminated.
Great web site and tools though.
Doesn’t look like they have a privacy policy (the “see our pivacy policy” link links to their licence agreement). I won’t be giving them my email.
great input Matafan… i will be sure to think about their privacy policy when i’m working on my body roll, and catch up drills…
I couldn’t download the console, but you don’t need to. The blog is free and the information and videos are informative. I am currently working on a couple key stroke “breakthroughs” and this was helpful. Thanks for posting.
The video is very well done. Thanks for making it.
I found this helped me alot also! I was having trouble with my right left arm not entering as smooth as my right. The view of the front shows the correct wrist angle…NO MORE BUBBLES on entry with left arm. Also the side view shows how the arm enters straighter, that helped me also. My swim this morning went very well with those two ideas in my head. I didn’t fade as I usually do during the end of the workout. Thanks for posting this!!
b) the elbow seemed quite low on hand entry, and it almost looks as if the whole forearm is entering at the same time.
Why shouldn’t it? If the forearm is not doing this, then the arm has a downward component that isn’t very helpful. I, for one, enter the water with a nearly straight arm and extend it straight forward as I complete my roll onto that side.
I guess it depends on whether you consider it “downwards” component or a rotational component. I’ve always considered it a part of the “classic” form that this video/app looks to be demonstrating.
Clearly there are degrees, but it seems to be a much flatter entry than you can see at the end of this Phelps example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax77_hHq9Dc
or more extremely here by Jones (or the TI coach for whatever that’s worth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ENDX_e7aRg&feature=related
Having looked the swimsmooth again, it doesn’t seem as flat as I first thought, but it looks like they’d still be a bit of splash!
“In centuries past, swimmers were taught to enter into the water thumb-first, then press out, sweep back in, and then finally back out as their hands swept past their thighs.”
Now that makes me feel really, really, old. And then it goes on to say that the “S” pull stopped being used in the '80s. I missed the boat on that one.
“In centuries past, swimmers were taught to enter into the water thumb-first, then press out, sweep back in, and then finally back out as their hands swept past their thighs.”
You’ll have to excuse our slight tongue-in-cheek humour there TJ56 (we are British after all!)…however the point is that a thumb-first entry into the water does require excessive internal rotation of the shoulder and for most swimmers this is the leading cause of shoulder pain and at worst impingement and full-blown injury…something you want to avoid like the plague.
Well worth taking a look at our injury page at http://www.swimsmooth.com/injury_adv.php if you get chance and are interested in this.
Sorry for making you feel old TJ56…this particular point has been known by physiotherapists for many years now and certainly over here in Australia (where we are now based) is not taught by swim teachers and coaches alike. When we visit the UK to run Clinics over there though (for example) the thumb-first entry and S-Pull shape is very much still part of the teaching curriculum. Not all coaches teach this way obviously, but that is what the literature still says, being out of date.
As a coach my first concern with any swimmer that I work with is “is this method / practice safe? Will it guard against injury and therefore result in more consistent practice and therefore better performance in the long run?” If not, I won’t practice that method even if it is still in the “rule book” from years gone by.
Hope that all makes sense. I’d highly encourage you to give some of these ideas a go in your training TJ56 over the next few weeks and lets us know how you get on.
Cheers!
there is no optimal freestyle swim stroke. there is a somewhat optimal freestyle sprinting swim stroke. and there is a somewhat optimal distance freestyle stroke.
but they’re not the same.
Agreed GregX, that’s exactly what we say at:
http://www.swimsmooth.com/aboutmrsmooth.html
"Mr Smooth’s stroke is bang up to date with the latest knowledge of the freestyle stroke from the elite swimming world. We use this stroke knowledge to coach swimmers of all abilities, which allows them to develop better feel for the water, greater relaxation and economy, better performance in open water and lower risk of injury.
Swim Smooth believe that different types of strokes suit different swimmers and Mr Smooth has all the key elements that every swimmer should aspire to."
Our coaching and “knowhow” material provided on the site is very much aimed at dealing with the various individual idiosyncrasies that you may encounter with various swimmers of various abilities, body types, experience, gender and distance. If you take all these factors into account you could say that you’d have to produce an infinite number of Mr Smooth’s to “cover all the bases” but then this would simply become too confusing as a model. What the aim here is, is to simply show the key elements which any swimmer would want to have in their stroke to allow them to move efficiently through the water. From there on there’s obviously scope (and we’d encourage that) to develop the swimmer’s stroke according to the aforementioned factors above.
So hopefully you can see we haven’t overlooked these factors, moreso aimed at producing a base model from which to build upon.
Cheers!
"MONITORING
The software may be monitored for the purpose of identifying unauthorised use or software piracy and as a basis for termination of one or many Software licenses."
I’m out
Not sure if I’m in or out but out of curiosity, I emailed them to ask about this and got the following reply (I cannot imagine they would mind me posting this):
Hi Joe,
When the Mr Smooth Consoles are registered, the license key used is checked against our database. This allows us to blacklist certain licenses and stop them being registered if they have been abused beyond the allowed two installations per license. This is to cover the situation of someone publishing their license key on the internet and other users registering the software with that key.
I cannot envisage us black listing any Free Console licenses since they are free to obtain. Instead, this database check is aimed at protecting the Pro Console in such as event.
I hope that clarifies.
Cheers,
Adam Young
Swim Smooth