Wondering if anyone has ever seen actual mountain bike tire crr data? I’ve found one limited set through google but thats it.
I need to replace my tires anyways and will be doing some xterras this year. Lots of people report Kenda Small Block 8, Conti Race Kings and Schwalbe Racing Ralph/Rocket Ron as being fast tires. However, lots of people report the same thing about Tufos on the road…
Latex tubes worth it? I’ve had great experiences on the road with latex.
Why not go tubless?
Very common in MTB’s and you don’t have to worry about pinch flatting when riding low pressure
jaretj
This post leads me to believe that you have a lot to learn about mountain biking.
Latex tubes? See prior post re: tubeless. I’ve never even heard of latex MTB tubes (but that doesn’t mean someone doesn’t make 'em).
Rolling resistance? When your grinding up a climb in your granny gear, you need every bit of rolling resistance you can get. That’s why they put the knobbies on the tires.
Mountain bikers talk about trail conditions, tire pressure and tread patterns, not rolling resistance.
Hmmm, your logic is severely flawed thatsethguy. I do indeed have a lot to learn about mountain biking, but I’m almost positive there is a difference between rolling resistance and traction. Rolling resistance has to do with hysteresis in the tire/tube system where deformation leads to lost energy. Traction has do with the interaction between the tire and the ground. There is likely overlap in that greater deformation, may increase traction but I don’t think the two are mutually exclusive. In some instances a more easily deforming tire may actually roll faster and grip better; which was confirmed in one of the tests I did find! Just as a road bike tire can have low rolling resistance without being slippery, I’m fairly positive the same can be said about mountain bike tires.
Major manufacturers make mountain bike latex tubes: michelin, geax, challenge. I may look in to tubeless but thats not really my question. On the road, latex can reduce rolling resistance by a bit and I’d happily take those same gains off road.
As for whether or not mountain bikers discuss rolling resistance, I’ve found more than a few hits on the subject at quite a few of the mountain bike sites, forums, etc. Whether or not they discuss these things does not determine how much they matter.
running mtb tires tubed is just silly. SILLY.
i suspect that at 20 psi most tires will deform similarly.
tubeless performance (ease of setting up and holding air) and traction will have a bigger impact on a tires performance and this user’s satisfaction than crr.
that’s n=1, but I have never seen any discussion of crr on the wheels and tire section of the mtbr forum, but that would be a good place to start.
The benefit of latex tubes you are talking about will be even greater if run tubeless, and you dont have to worry about a fragile tube popping. No point in latex tubes. For fast tires I am a big fan of Specialized Fast Trak. Get the least aggressive tire you can get away with for the rear(SB8, renegade, etc) , and slightly more aggressive, maybe higher volume up front and you will be fine.
Wondering if anyone has ever seen actual mountain bike tire crr data? I’ve found one limited set through google but thats it.
I need to replace my tires anyways and will be doing some xterras this year. Lots of people report Kenda Small Block 8, Conti Race Kings and Schwalbe Racing Ralph/Rocket Ron as being fast tires. However, lots of people report the same thing about Tufos on the road…
Latex tubes worth it? I’ve had great experiences on the road with latex.
I run Michelin latex tubes in my MTB.
Why? Because they not only offer lower rolling resistance than either the same tires with butyl tubes or any dedicated tubeless tires (i.e. UST with their butyl air barrier), but they also greatly reduce the likelihood of pinch flatting IME. Just like with tubeless setups, running latex MTB tubes allows you to run lower pressures with less chance of a pinch flat. Seriously. Since switching to latex MTB tubes over 4 years ago I have not suffered a single pinch flat off road…which, with the rocky trails around here is a fairly good accomplishment.
Why don’t I run tubeless? For a bunch of reasons. First, I must point out that I experimented with DIY tubeless sealants WAY back (about the same time Stan’s originally came out) and after a few tries just got tired of the plain ol’ MESS that invariably ends up at some point. On top of that, I started not riding my MTB as often, and having the latex sealant dry up on me was sort of a pain as well.
Basically, I saw that I could get ~80-90% of the advantages of tubeless setups without all of the hassles with sealant, or without having to deal with heavy (and SLOW) UST tires. About the only thing that you give up as compared to tubeless setups running sealant is the “automatic” sealing of small punctures. Then again, I have yet to puncture with the latex tubes either…and my experience with latex tubes on the road shows me that small punctures actually tend to “self-seal” in latex tubes when the pressures get low enough…
But…maybe that’s just me 
Oh…and if anyone thinks I don’t know anything about MTBs, I’ll just point out that I bought my first MTB (a DiamondBack Apex) in 1986
Time marches on, and good ideas get refined. Plenty of light and fast tubeless options these days, as well as sealants that are not as nasty as Stans.
I’ve seen a lot of different sealants on the market, which ones do you like?
jaretj
Oh…and if anyone thinks I don’t know anything about MTBs, I’ll just point out that I bought my first MTB (a DiamondBack Apex) in 1986
Not a good argument… I bought mine that same year, and I don’t know anything about MTBs…
But I do agree with everything you said. Tubeless is for people who ride in thorns… or are not looking for the fastest setup.
Traction and rolling resistance are not the same.
Traction and rolling resistance are not the same.
x2
In the summertime, with relatively dry courses, having more rubber on the ground = better traction
Tires not robbing you of power during a climb = getting up the hill faster
The only time I’ll put serious knobbies on the back is during the winter when there’s significant chance of riding in the snow, through mud, or over lots of leaves.
to add to the main topic, specialized makes some great tubeless ready tires which are significantly lighter than UST. They’ve also got three pretty fast rolling styles to suit your preference, fast track, renegade, and ground control.
Wondering if anyone has ever seen actual mountain bike tire crr data? I’ve found one limited set through google but thats it.
I need to replace my tires anyways and will be doing some xterras this year. Lots of people report Kenda Small Block 8, Conti Race Kings and Schwalbe Racing Ralph/Rocket Ron as being fast tires. However, lots of people report the same thing about Tufos on the road…
Latex tubes worth it? I’ve had great experiences on the road with latex.
I run Michelin latex tubes in my MTB.
Why? Because they not only offer lower rolling resistance than either the same tires with butyl tubes or any dedicated tubeless tires (i.e. UST with their butyl air barrier), but they also greatly reduce the likelihood of pinch flatting IME. Just like with tubeless setups, running latex MTB tubes allows you to run lower pressures with less chance of a pinch flat. Seriously. Since switching to latex MTB tubes over 4 years ago I have not suffered a single pinch flat off road…which, with the rocky trails around here is a fairly good accomplishment.
Why don’t I run tubeless? For a bunch of reasons. First, I must point out that I experimented with DIY tubeless sealants WAY back (about the same time Stan’s originally came out) and after a few tries just got tired of the plain ol’ MESS that invariably ends up at some point. On top of that, I started not riding my MTB as often, and having the latex sealant dry up on me was sort of a pain as well.
Basically, I saw that I could get ~80-90% of the advantages of tubeless setups without all of the hassles with sealant, or without having to deal with heavy (and SLOW) UST tires. About the only thing that you give up as compared to tubeless setups running sealant is the “automatic” sealing of small punctures. Then again, I have yet to puncture with the latex tubes either…and my experience with latex tubes on the road shows me that small punctures actually tend to “self-seal” in latex tubes when the pressures get low enough…
But…maybe that’s just me
Oh…and if anyone thinks I don’t know anything about MTBs, I’ll just point out that I bought my first MTB (a DiamondBack Apex) in 1986
What pressure are you running front and rear?
What pressure are you running front and rear?
20-25 psi
.
Why are latex tubes less likely to pinch flat? Is this something peculiar to MTB tires?
Does Michelin make latex tubes in MTB size? I’ve only seen road bike sizes.
Why are latex tubes less likely to pinch flat? Is this something peculiar to MTB tires?
I am wondering the same thing. I have found latex to be more supple but less forgiving when installing and generally more fragile. Interested to hear why Tom thinks they are superior (and where you even find them?).
to update this thread, there is a huge thread over on mtbr recounting a magazine names “bike” who has done a ton of roller drum crr testing. They also have a puncture and grip test.
If I had to sum up what I’ve read, it’d be that Schwalbes’ 67 tpi casing tends to give a tire that rolls pretty well. Essentially all the tires with that casing test around 26-28 watts, whereas the top tire is Furious Fred with a 127 tpi casing at 19-20 watts and the worst are up around 50 watts. Continental tends to do well, Kenda and Maxxis have good all around tires but generally roll more around 35 watts.
I’m still undecided on what I’m going to get. I could get a Fast Fred 2.35 and King Jim 2.35 cheap. I’d run the King on front.
To further go off what Tom mentioned about latex, “bike” apparently demonstrated a significant difference from thick butyl to latex in terms of power…
Why are latex tubes less likely to pinch flat? Is this something peculiar to MTB tires?
No, it’s the same with road tires. Latex’s much higher elasticity means it can be stretched more before failing. A pinch flat (snakebite) occurs when the tube material is “stretched” thin when compressed between the tire casing and rim. Butyl fails easier under that condition.
Does Michelin make latex tubes in MTB size? I’ve only seen road bike sizes.
They did the last time I bought them, through biketiresdirect.com IIRC.