What in your opinion, is the most tested frame? Trek, Cervelo, Specialized? Can the results of the testing be found?
I’d bet on the P-4 being the most tested. Everybody from triathletes to fast club riders to serious TT racers seems to use one. I’ve tested at least a dozen over the last few months in the tunnel with and without riders and it so happens that they are pretty fast. I would think any competiting frame maker would test a P-4 as a base line refrence against their new products, there is plenty of test data out on the web for them.
I dont know, but the other suspects are not so common place. I would think that Lance or Dave Z would be up there (frame with the body). Then there was some of the Specialized/DuPont escapades. The GT Superbike has got to be up there on the list. Felt is no chump when it comes to spending time in the tunnel…but I really do bet that the MOST tested would be a bike under Lance…they spent hours and hours and hours…in that case however (as you know as you were one of “they”) it was more than just the frame that was being looked at.
What do you think about the QR CD01 ?
My guess is that the most test frame would be something that has become a benchmark for other manufacturers, something like the Lotus or P3. It gives other companies an idea of where they stand when they are developing their new bikes.
I doubt anyone would publish all the data though.
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So what would be the least tested? Are there brands that spend zero time in the wind tunnel?
You are not serious…let me start with the bike I ride…PlanetX, we can go from there to many many bikes.
You are not serious…let me start with the bike I ride…PlanetX, we can go from there to many many bikes.
Yeah, I’m serious. I realize the list may be long, but I really don’t have a checklist on my desk with the manufacturers who do wind tunnel testing and those who don’t, so I was curious. With aero being such a huge marketing tool these days, you’d think the list of people who don’t test would start shrinking.
you don’t have to test to use aero as a marketing tool.
you can just pretend, like a lot of bikes do =)
trek/cervelo/specialized/felt/giant are all pretty known quantities for both testing and engineering their bikes around that testing.
im sure im missing a couple
Yeah but its a hell of a lot cheaper to make a frame that looks aero, tell everyone how aero it looks and then not test it. And sell it on pure aero-speculation.
Aero gurus like Cobb have said behind the fork brakes dont work. Either he’s lying or Ridley is lying:
Who has more to gain?
You would think Ridley would have tested their fork setup in the tunnel right? And their website shows that they have and that its faster than “leading Brand A” and “leading brand b”. So what? Who are these leading brands? Is it a P4? Unlikely.
But it sure looks fast.
In any case - the BEST frame, with the BEST wheels, and the BEST bars all told will offer no more than a minute or so over the middle of the road stuff that we can buy…and this is at Iron Distance. This of course does not consider if the person can even get a decent position on the bike and maintain it for 112 miles.
RC10, i think in fact a great frame with great wheels would offer a minute or two per 40k. this based on drag data i have seen.
also, if a given rider, say, cannot maintain his position for the whole 112 miles
that will be the case whether he is on a horrid Scott Plasma 1 or a Cervelo P4
and in the case of the Cervelo P4 he will still have less drag from the frame underneath his horrid position than he would on the Scott Plasma 1
discuss
In any case - the BEST frame, with the BEST wheels, and the BEST bars all told will offer no more than a minute or so over the middle of the road stuff that we can buy…and this is at Iron Distance. This of course does not consider if the person can even get a decent position on the bike and maintain it for 112 miles.
In any case - the BEST frame, with the BEST wheels, and the BEST bars all told will offer no more than a minute or so over the middle of the road stuff that we can buy…and this is at Iron Distance. This of course does not consider if the person can even get a decent position on the bike and maintain it for 112 miles.
I dont think the data supports that comment.
What about Tom’s P2k vs P3 shoot out that shows a 7 minute advantage over Ironman distance.
Coggan found about 3.6 minute advantage from P2 to P3C over Iron
2 minutes over what? A round tube road bike with drop bars and 32 spokes on box rims? We both know that the ‘results’ of the tests are ‘as compared to’ as 32 spoke wheel with a rim shape of that of an Open Pro. We also know that the “default” frame is an OS (OS…that is a joke as back in the day a standard tube was less than 30mm and Cannondale and Klein came out with “OS” or Over Sized tubes in the late '80’s.). So, is a P4 ‘that’ much faster than a stock Specialized Epic? Sure as hell it is. Is a Zipp wheel ‘that’ much faster than a 32 spoke 3 cross box section wheel? Sure as hell it is. Is a Profile integrated aero bar such as the CarbonX ‘that’ much faster than a drop bar on a road bike? Sure as hell…
But…is a P4 with all the trick gear 2 minutes faster than a P3 with four year old aero (or even ten year old aero) stuff? No.
But jeremy then why haven’t the kona bike splits trended down?
wait…they have!
no probably not
but it looks pretty cool the way it wraps around the front wheel don’t it?
But…is a P4 with all the trick gear 2 minutes faster than a P3 with four year old aero (or even ten year old aero) stuff? No.
Now do AG splits…Pro’s ride what they are PAID to ride. From there you can factor in the advent of aero bars and carbon wheels. Dare I add…bring in the nutrition, PowerBars, InfinIT, understanding of the human body and modern medicine (no not to infer drugs).
And you fail to note that the course record is held by the so so un-aero Kuota.
This is a good read from a biased source
Basically says that a P3alu is 30 seconds faster than a P2k over 40k.
The problem here is that unless R10C has been in a windtunnel and tested bikes himself he can dispute tunnel data as being biased because its only done by companies trying to sell us the latest hair tonic.
if you know of a place i can grab AG data in an excel friendly way that would be interesting.
would provide a lot more data, could even figure out which days were inherently slower due to wind and heat!
maybe next year will be a fast year and lieto will be on point again
Now do AG splits…Pro’s ride what they are PAID to ride. From there you can factor in the advent of aero bars and carbon wheels. Dare I add…bring in the nutrition, PowerBars, InfinIT, understanding of the human body and modern medicine (no not to infer drugs).
And you fail to note that the course record is held by the so so un-aero Kuota.
I have been in wind tunnels. And I wont claim the hair tonic thing and dont dispute Gerards numbers…but, being as a P3 is far steeper than a P2K I have to wonder if they were stock for stock (with no spacers) or if they went out of their way to be sure they were comparing virtual apples with virtual apples…the smart guy in me says no. The P2K was NOT running the same equipment as the P3 (but was running its own OE hardware).