MORE THOUGHTS ON INTERVAL TRAINING (running)

Here’s a link to the original thread:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1014205;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

I wanted to make a few clarifications and present some new “understandings” that I have from a few recent email exchanges that I recently had with Jack Daniels (he was very helpful).

Again, I am talking specificaly of V02max intervals that are to be done leading up to and/or during your racing season.

  1. INTERVAL PACE: I had recently suggested interval pace to be near 5K race pace. This is actualy a pretty good pace for someone who runs under 16 minutes for a 5K, but is probably too slow for too many people (especialy many traithletes who really aren’t “runners”). Andrew Coggan had also questioned me on this pace so, as I promised, I did my research.

Daniels’ recommended pace is actually at ~11:00 race pace. In other words, you want to do your intervals at a pace that you could race for 11 minutes. That may be difficult to calculate. You can use Daniels’ VDot tables, the McMillan Calculator, or remember that every time you cut your race distance in half you should be able to run about 15 seconds a mile faster (ie a 22 minute 5k person would want to do intervals at roughly 2.5K race pace. So, 22 minute = 7:05 pace. Subtract 15 seconds and you have 6:50 pace)

  1. VOLUME: Daniels and I went back in forth on the issue of volume of intervals. He sticks to 8% of weekly training volume, but where some gray areas lie are that he is refering to “run only” programs. In a triathlon program you aren’t going to be throwing in nearly as many recovery runs and you probably won’t be getting in 3 workouts a week. So, where one person might actualy run 40 miles in a week and do a tempo run and TWO 5x1,000 meter interval workouts, this same person as a triathlete may only run 30 miles in a week with a tempo run and only ONE other workout of 4,000 meters. Is it enough? You may have to figure that out on your own. However, where I’m really concerned is the triathlete who’s only running 20 miles a week. Now their workout is 3x800 meters. Frankly, I just don’t believe that’s enough of a workout to truly get the effects that you desire.

I questioned Jack about a kind of “minimum recommendation” and he replied with “5x800 meters” which from my experience working with high school kids seems like a pretty reasonable goal for even the slowest of runners. I had previously recommended 4-6,000 meters of track work but then was challenged by Tri-Yoda about the total volume of the workout. I had to go back and reasses my “target audience.” For one who is running intervals pretty close to 5K race pace, I still feel that a 4-6000 meter workout should be pretty easy to accomplish regardless of your total training volume. However, I can now see how difficult it would be for that 22 minute 5K runner who is running FASTER than 3K race pace.

What rule should you then follow? Uh…here’s where you have to use some judgement. I don’t claim to be an expert on how much intensity you’ll want to put into each workout in relation to all of the other type of training that you have to do for the triathlon.

  1. “RACING PHASE” - I think that many people incorrectly describe Daniel’s Running Formula as “Base - Reps - Intervals - Tempo.” Where I specificaly feel that there is a discrepency is refering to the last phase as “tempo.” I like the word “racing.” Jack drops out much of the interval training during this phase because he expects athletes to be doing a lot of racing. Races are very stressful and can serve as a “replacement” of intervals.

So, my point is, nearing your goal race, on the weeks that you have a race it would behoove you to drop the interval workout for that week. If you don’t have a race an interval workout would be ideal. You see, according to Daniels Formuls, it’s not that tempo runs are more important during this phase, it’s that you are running races so there’s no need to get in interval workouts. He admits that this is contrary to the beliefs of many coaches who prefer to continue hard intervals mid week during the racing season. The point I want to get across is to either do an interval workout OR a race during each week of this last phase.

  1. HOW MANY WEEKS? - I still think you should have an absolute maximum cap of 12 weeks of intervals. However, if you go out 12 weeks you ABSOLUTELY must make sure you have an adequate base AND the volume of intervals should be low. For most of you I still highly recommend less than 6 weeks of intervals since many traithletes are better served by focusing on mre miles and more LT training.

Anyway, I hope that some of you found this useful. Please bump it back to the first page if you think others will want to read it.

…oh, and as always, open up a discussion. Someone before had used the word “lecture” to describe my posts and I don’t intend it to be that way. I merely want to get some information out there and hope that we can share our ideas.

-Barry

Daniel’s has a weird idea of “INTERVAL” running. Here is the 1st 4 weeks of his intermediate plan, looks like a lot more than 8% to me:

Red Level I weeks 1 through 4

  1. 30 min E pace
    6 strides

  2. 10 min E pace
    3 x (1 mile T pace with 1-min rest)
    10 min E pace

  3. 10 min E pace
    6 x (1,000m T pace with 1-min rest)
    10 min E pace

  4. 40 min or 6 miles L run (E pace)

If you have the plan, then I assume you have access to the rest of the book. Try reading it.

He defines the word “interval” to mean V02max pace.

What you show are “threshold intervals,” according to his definition. He recommends no more than 8% at V02max pace. So the plan you presented has 0% of “V02max Intervals.”

" Daniel’s has a weird idea of “INTERVAL” running. Here is the 1st 4 weeks of his intermediate plan, looks like a lot more than 8% to me:"

Here we go with terminology again.

That 8% is miles at Daniels-defined interval pace. So 3 x (1mile T pace) is not an interval, it’s a threshold run broken up into 3 pieces to make it mentally easier.

It looks to me like there’s 0% INTERVAL running in the set you’ve mentioned.

how do you feel about having 2 threshold runs out of a 4 run week?

Regarding distance of intervals run.

Whether from research or wives’ tales. 2.5 miles of intervals seems to be a pretty common number. 5x800, 10x400, etc. would fit with this as a general guideline.

Of course, it’s all individual and depends on what works for each person. As we all know, there are those who think that the average triathlete does not need interval training, especially if they are competing in an ironman. And there are those who think that they are absolutely necessary for all distances. AND, yet again there are those who are somewhere in between.

I’ve toyed with the idea, but have never brought myself to actualy do it. He has a little over 6 miles of T-paced training in that schedule. I have done that much in a given week in the past, but I’ve always tied it up into one workout.

IMO, in a four run week one of those should be a long run. Then, if you are comfortable with your mileage and don’t have the time to add any more, the second one should be a tempo run. I don’t think another tempor run and even a 4th fartlek, or rep type workout is rediculous. Again, I’m in favor of a larger base but, as you’ve said in th epast, not everyone has the time to do it.

Whether from research or wives’ tales. 2.5 miles of intervals seems to be a pretty common number. 5x800, 10x400, etc. would fit with this as a general guideline.


If I’m training for anythin between 5K to 20K, I’l typicaly be in the 4-5 mile range, but I have a pretty solid running background and will do this off of 50-60 mpw of training (or 30-40 as a triathlete…though I’m new to this so don’t know yet how I’ll respond).

I would agree with the 4-5 mile range, even up to about 10k especially if running upwards of 50 miles per week or 30-40 as a triathete with a solid running background. With triathletes it’s so individual as some can/cannot handle much speedwork with swimming/cycling added in there. Running at a pace that is near your 3k-5k pace, I think that it would be tough to do 4-5 miles or interval work. For triathletes in general I think that open 10k pace, which is generally 8-12" per mile slower than 5k pace, 4-5 miles of interals is doable. It depends on the time of year, goal race, etc. though.

More good stuff Barry.

I have a slightly different take again which is to say that you COULD consider the 8% rule for triathletes by working it out as a percentage of total training duration for the week. For me, for example. At 20hrs/week I get to spend 96 minutes at VO2Max pace. I think that’s more than enough!

After all if you’re after that sort of adaptation, chances are you need it for all three sports.