More Color on the Women’s Races in Kona and Nice

Hey in my discourse previously in this thread, I suggested that there be a Kona general entry race with no pro field and a championship 2 day race elsewhere. Let the championship rotate. Keep a general entry age grouper race in Kona. Best of all worlds?

From what I have seen at the 70.3 Worlds I have done overseas, there is still a very large contingent of North Americans filling the field and the field gets sold out. I don’t think Ironman is losing out anything because if they were, by now they would bring it permanently back to the USA, but after twice in St. George, it is Finland, New Zealand and Spain (I think it is due to come back to USA).

It’s a non starter because of the money, but they could do Kona every year with both fields of the side of the field was kept smaller. Top finisher in the AG qualifies, a few extra slots allocated at the end of the qualifying window to top finishes that didn’t win their AG. 14 age groups x ~25 races = 350 AG winners. Top 50 in each AG is more than enough and that’s only 1400 total plus ~100 pros.

But I get it, more entries is more money and more engagement and more experiences and all around better for the brand. But their focus on growth has consequences

Does anybody know what the financial breakeven headcount is for Kona? Do they breakeven at 1500? 2500? 5000?

@stevej No, they lost money this year in Nice. I also don’t think anyone at Ironman is considering giving up on Kona. It remains their most recognized and important event. They are not inclined to burn that down in the hope of picking up new people down the road, they simply can’t afford that. @devashish_paul may argue they can’t afford not to, but I think that’s very unlikely. Personally, I’m conflicted as I really have enjoyed seeing the women race on their own day but the fact they aren’t on the Big Island diminishes the spectacle of it for me. As an AG’er, I currently have no interest in racing an IM WC race anywhere but Kona. But full disclosure I also don’t race 70.3 Worlds in locations other than the US. If I’m traveling that far I want to be on vacation, not racing.

For the past 10 years plus, they have started 2300-2400 including the pro’s. In 2021 they had 3300 finish, which had a lot of pent-up demand post COVID and a super generous slot allocation process leading into that race. they were without question making positive revenue at the 2300 level. If they could manage to consistently have 3300 that would be a really be a win. For comparison the 2 day Kona 2023 saw 4443 finishers.

What about last year for the men’s race?

I don’t know, I never asked. Based on the numbers they may have come close to breaking even.

Can they have a fair race for everyone with that many people on the course ?

"Till 2019 . . . "
Not sure which race/month you are referring to.
St George, over two days? (“2021” raced in May 2022)
Hawai’i Oct 2022, over two days

Write off the two days, two days apart in Kona: it’s a non-starter.

I’m confused by your numbers. In 2021, there was no Kona unless you are talking about St George which was the 2021 WC but held in 2022. And the 2 day kona was in 2022 not 2023.

From an AG perspective, no. But I can say as someone who raced back in 2007, 2010, 2012, and will be there in 15 days, the AG race has always had problems with drafting bike packs. So it’s sort of academic. :slight_smile: But as Steve just pointed out, the 3300 were in St. George, so they never could run that many in Kona.

Oh I totally forget, thank you. Yes 3300 is probably too big a field for Kona with the limitations on the pier.

I THINK the bulk of you opposed to a rotating world’s for 140.6 have not gone to a rotating worlds for 70.3 . This is likely why you all have heels dug in on Kona, because you have no alternative context of our sport in places you are no so familar with.

The reality is most of Europe is FASTER to get to than Kona from US East coast. In fact, you can actually fly to Dubai or Abu Dhabi faster from North East USA than Kona (more direct flights). I can fly to Tokyo and Seoul faster from where I am (Eastern Canada) than to Kona and Europe is almost half of the time as going to Kona.

But I would ask you if you fly all the way to Kona for racing rather than a vacation which would you not fly somewhere else aslo for racing rather than a vacation, or maybe combine racing and a vacation in either?

I do get the draw of Kona, but I after going through a number of 70.3 Worlds all over, perhaps my mind has been brought to the point that I see them as being just as good. The locations are different than Kona, but they all have their own value and culture.

Also I don’t see that the championship alone has to make money if the overall year long series makes more money because some extra has to be spent on the championship. Ideally the championship makes money too

@Bryancd how about this. Go to Oceanside or St. George next spring (you did both this year) and with your speed you’ll have a no brainer slot to 70.3 Worlds in Spain next year. Head over and see how it shakes out and then decide if 140.6 Worlds can be rotated.

Oh I’m sure I would enjoy it, I just don’t think my wife would be as keen. :slight_smile:

That’s a really interesting point. How many significant others out there are fine going to Hawaii as +1 where they can go sit on the beach, but aren’t thrilled at the prospect of doing so in a foreign country. I can see a lot being ok to go to France or Spain with their spouse on vacation, but making them feel like they have to fend for themselves in a foreign country race situation gets scarier.

Hadn’t considered that as my wife is pretty adventurous and we’ve lived overseas for many years, but culture shock, for lack of a better term, is a real thing.

Maybe Ironman needs to link up with a local tour guide group to get all the non-competing spouses together on guided day tours. I could actually see that being a huge success for their Nirvana concept.

Oh my wife loves to travel and we’ve been to Maui 4X since the last time I raced in Kona. Bit if and when we do Europe with our son, my bike is not tagging along. :slight_smile:

For all the races I’ve done overseas, I always get there, do the race right away, then dump the bike off in storage. We do the rest of our vacation just backpacking from there. Ideally the bike stays at the airport, but you can also use an off-site storage facility if needed.

I think you would really enjoy racing in Europe. The attitudes towards bikes - not to mention the roads - are much better.

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Just a general reply on some themes related to the challenges around travel, culture shock, wanting to do a vacation with no tri, wanting to vacation and not haul a bike around, when we flip it around another way it applies equally to international athletes coming to do Kona or a race in the US. All the concerns are legit, but they are also legit for an athlete from Croatia, or Abu Dhabi, or India, or Spain going to a US based worlds.

Why are you not interested in going to Nice? The swim and the bike are AMAZING. Plenty of accommodation and great restaurants. International airport (we flew direct from Montreal).

I can understand saying you prefer Kona, but can’t understand why anyone would not want to go to NIce and spend time in a beautiful city on the Mediterranean coast.