A perfect cartoon depicting modern societies views on “outdated” religious teachings.
Sorry, but my biblical knowledge is weak. Is this supposed to be the presentation to Moses of the Ten Suggestions?
Yes. Ten Commandments is the correct term though.
I am quite cetain you are wrong. I thought these were just Suggestions that you could follow if you wanted, but if you felt other Suggestions were better, that was fine too.
I also thought these were not handed down in stone as depicted here, but were provided in Microsoft Word format, so they could be edited according to the individual’s morality.
I am pretty sure I have this right. I know this because the NY Times takes polls to determine what Catholics think their religion should believe today.
This was a long time ago though, so maybe it was Word Perfect format.
“I am pretty sure I have this right. I know this because the NY Times takes polls to determine what Catholics think their religion should believe today”
Sarcasm aside (which I always appreciate, by the way) I would say this. The Ten Commandments isn’t a list of things a religion should teach or believe. It is a list of rules for a how a person is supposed to conduct themselves in this life. I’m not sure it’s all inclusive, although you could probably fit most situations into one of the Commandments. My point is, a Catholic could have opinions about what the Church should believe or teach and not have that have anything to do with the Ten Commandments.
just out of curiosity, what do those tablets say about gay marriage?
I find it funny how people beat their drums and demand that religious doctrine change based on modern society’s demands and it’s so old fashioned to followed the basic tenets of centuries old beliefs.
The Ten Commandments can almost be applied to a person of any faith…even those who have none. I find that the lives of people who stray from these basic 10 rules tend to get very complicated very fast.
Yes, we are all sinners but as long as we do our best to follow things tend to stay in line.
GJS touches on a good point IMO…
The 10 Commandments and Jesus’ Golden Rule are not really that controversial for the most part. The really sticky issues that Christians often take strong positions on here inthe Lavender Room (birth control, gay marriage, creationism) are tengential at best to the basic tenets of Christianity.
I find it funny how people beat their drums and demand that religious doctrine change based on modern society’s demands and it’s so old fashioned to followed the basic tenets of centuries old beliefs.
The Ten Commandments can almost be applied to a person of any faith…even those who have none. I find that the lives of people who stray from these basic 10 rules tend to get very complicated very fast.
So you think that the commandment “You shall not have other gods besides me” (Exod. 20:3) should be applied to those of non-Judeo-Christian faiths?
Do you think that innocent and yet unborn generations should be punished for the sins of their ancestors (" you shall not bow down before them or worship them. For I, the LORD, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishment for their fathers’ wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation" Exod. 20:5)?
Do you think that the Hebrews just got it wrong about which day is the Sabbath: Saturday, not Sunday as Constantine changed it (“Remember to keep holy the sabbath day” Exod. 20:8)?
These are, after all, the basic tenets of centuries-old beliefs.
FYI.
Here are the laws of God as handed down to Moses. ONE: ‘You shall have no other gods before Me.’ TWO: ‘You shall not make for yourself a carved image–any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.’ THREE: ‘You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.’ FOUR: ‘Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.’ FIVE: ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ SIX: ‘You shall not murder.’ SEVEN: ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ EIGHT: ‘You shall not steal.’ NINE: ‘You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.’ TEN: ‘You shall not covet your neighbour’s house; you shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbour’s.’
The Laws given to Moses are found at Leviticus 19 Lev 19:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Lev 19:2 Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the LORD your God am holy. Lev 19:3 Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep my sabbaths: I am the LORD your God. Lev 19:4 Turn ye not unto idols, nor make to yourselves molten gods: I am the LORD your God. Lev 19:5 And if ye offer a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD, ye shall offer it at your own will. Lev 19:6 It shall be eaten the same day ye offer it, and on the morrow : and if ought remain until the third day , it shall be burnt in the fire. Lev 19:7 And if it be eaten at all on the third day, it is abominable; it shall not be accepted. Lev 19:8 Therefore every one that eateth it shall bear his iniquity, because he hath profaned the hallowed thing of the LORD: and that soul shall be cut off from among his people. **Sundry Laws ** Lev 19:9 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest. Lev 19:10 And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the LORD your God. Lev 19:11 Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another. Lev 19:12 And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD. Lev 19:13 Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning. Lev 19:14 Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD. Lev 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment : thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour. Lev 19:16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour; I am the LORD. Lev 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour , and not suffer sin upon him . Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD. Lev 19:19 Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind : thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed : neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee . Lev 19:20 And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free. Lev 19:21 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering. Lev 19:22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the LORD for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him. Lev 19:23 And when ye shall come into the land, and shall have planted all manner of trees for food, then ye shall count the fruit thereof as uncircumcised: three years shall it be as uncircumcised unto you: it shall not be eaten of. Lev 19:24 But in the fourth year all the fruit thereof shall be holy to praise the LORD withal. Lev 19:25 And in the fifth year shall ye eat of the fruit thereof, that it may yield unto you the increase thereof: I am the LORD your God. Lev 19:26 Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times. Lev 19:27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. Lev 19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD. Lev 19:29 Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness. Lev 19:30 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD. Lev 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God. Lev 19:32 Thou shalt rise up before the hoary head, and honour the face of the old man, and fear thy God: I am the LORD. Lev 19:33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. Lev 19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God. Lev 19:35 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment, in meteyard, in weight, or in measure. Lev 19:36 Just balances, just weights, a just ephah, and a just hin, shall ye have: I am the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt. Lev 19:37 Therefore shall ye observe all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: I am the LORD.
**So you think that the commandment “You shall not have other gods besides me” (Exod. 20:3) should be applied to those of non-Judeo-Christian faiths? **
Is that a serious question? Of course.
Do you think that innocent and yet unborn generations should be punished for the sins of their ancestors
I don’t understand why this is such a sticking point for people. Clearly, people *do *pay for the sins of their ancestors, in just about every area of life. You don’t even need to believe in anything beyond the physical world to see the plain truth of this.
Do you think that the Hebrews just got it wrong about which day is the Sabbath: Saturday, not Sunday as Constantine changed it (“Remember to keep holy the sabbath day” Exod. 20:8)?
Boy, back to nit-picking again, huh, Ken? Does it matter what day we say the Sabbath is, or does it matter more that we keep that day holy?
**So you think that the commandment “You shall not have other gods besides me” (Exod. 20:3) should be applied to those of non-Judeo-Christian faiths? **
Yes.
Do you think that the Hebrews just got it wrong about which day is the Sabbath: Saturday, not Sunday as Constantine changed it (“Remember to keep holy the sabbath day” Exod. 20:8)?
What does it matter whether the sabbath is on a Saturday or Sunday?
So you have the 10 biggies and then a bunch of other laws. How do those of you who follow the old testament know that wearing clothing made from two different fabrics isn’t just as bad as coveting thy neighbors male servant? They are both the word of God, so how do you pick and choose which parts of the bible to follow and what not to follow. And if someone has chosen for you, how did they chose? My other question is do any of you ever worry that the translation you’re reading is inaccurate or the word choice during translation was influenced by the translator or do you read the bible in the original language? This is quite problem with translations of philosophical texts in general and sometimes the meaning of whole passages can be changed by word choice during translation.
Reminds me of a very funny scene from Mel Brooks’ History of the World Part 1 when Moses comes down from the mountain with 3 tablets under his arm and proclaims…
“PEOPLE OF ISRAEL…I GIVE YOU THE FIFTE…crash…he drops and breaks one of the tablets…ERRRRR UMMMM THE TEN COMMANDMENTS”
Who brought us the seven deadly sins? and venal sins, how many of those are there?
Brian…theology is an evolutionary process; we’ve had the dark ages, the reformation, Vatican II, we used to burn witches, alchemists, and various and sundry Spanish people. Thank God it is is all I can say.
TEN: ‘You shall not covet your neighbour’s house; you shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbour’s.’
Omniscient: having knowledge of all things.
Omniscience at work. “OK. That’s nine. One more to go. Coveting. That’s bad. Especially of next door’s house. Yeah. No coveting that. Oooh What if there’s a hot Mrs. neighbour? Definitely no coveting her. Coveting the wife. That’s a no-no. Oh, and the male servant. That’s gotta be on the no coveting list. But what if the neighbours have female servants? OK, them too. No coveting of either sort of servants. Yipes! Almost forgot the ox! And the donkey! Wow! How much stuff does this guy have? I could be here for all eternity with this list. What am I gonna do about thing like betamax, that no one will really like? I’m gonna need a bigger tablet. Argh! No more tablets. I should have done this one first. What am I gonna do…? Got it! OK. I’m back on track. That’s it. No coveting anything. I’m drawing a line in the sand, and it’s here. There. I’m done. There you go Mo. Have a good one. I need a lie down.”
Just goes to show. Don’t legislate if you don’t know the local area.
The Ten Commandments can almost be applied to a person of any faith…even those who have none. I find that the lives of people who stray from these basic 10 rules tend to get very complicated very fast.
Here are the laws of God as handed down to Moses. TWO: ‘You shall not make for yourself a carved image–any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.’
Umm. So, how many carvers have you found who’ve gone crazy on what they want to carve, and have had their lives getting complicated very fast? If it’s less than 1 million, we could play 20 questions to find out how many.
As for polling Catholics and asking them what they think their Chruch should be…why is this such a bad thing? The current Catholic Church is a facsimile of what Catholics in the 1950s wanted…the Catholic Chruch in the 1600s was a representation of what catholics then wanted from a church. The Catholic church 100 years from now will be a different church from the current one and will be more representative of the views of its membership.
American Catholics have for the most part I guess read the bible and have a pretty good grasp of what it contains and an understanding of what it means. If Catholics 50 or 100 years ago interpreted certain passages to mean that condoms should be outlawed why should their interpretation be any more valid than the conflicting interpretations of today’s Catholics? Who is right? God only knows, but to claim Church change or evolution is somehow wrong or a caving in to progressivism or a weakening of morals is shaky ground to base your point on. The Church has changed many many times to reflect the changing views of its membership.
Corrent me if I’m wrong Brian, but it appears to me that you are maintaining that there’s some sort of linear constancy of doctrine morality and ethics that goes right back to the very inception of the Catholic church and that it has barely if at all changed.
If this is the case can you explain to me how a Pope like Alexander VI and the new Pope could possibly see eye to eye on anything related to doctrine or morality? They can’t because the church is not the same, it has evolved and it will continue to evolve.
As for polling Catholics and asking them what they think their Chruch should be…why is this such a bad thing?
Because the Catholic Church isn’t a democracy, obviously.
I thought you were one of those “I went to Catholic school for years, and my whole family is Catholic, blah blah blah” types. If that’s true, you can’t possibly be as ignorant about Church history and doctrine as your post indicates.
I was quite religious at high school - bible study, concerts and the like. One of the things that pushed me away was that our prayer leader insisted that those in other religions and praying to different gods would go to hell, and I couldn’t quite come to terms with that. He wasn’t very vocal about it, ie it wasn’t some sort of ‘hook’, but I pressed him on it and he said that even if they were moral they would.
What is the Catholic position on that issue?
I’ve started going to church again (with my fiance, Anglican) and it is a shame that the congregations are so small - they’ve got some problems.
They are both the word of God, so how do you pick and choose which parts of the bible to follow and what not to follow.
When man starts cutting and pasting the bible to meet his desires or confirm/dispel his beliefs, you can spend a lifetime arguing.
A guy named Thomas Jefferson did exactly that (cutting and pasting). He left out all of the theocracy and dogma; the result is called the Jefferson Bible.