https://www.cyclingnews.com/...on-at-olympic-games/
How do we make aero sabre and air pistol belts?
Does Heather from GTN go back to Pentathlon?
Does ITU adopt Pentathlon instead of when the Pentathlon union tried to adopt tri?
How many of us are going to learn to fence and shoot for a crack at Olympic glory?
Damn and I thought triathlon was a rich person’s sport
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I think for that sport they don’t even bring their own horse they just hand them some rental horse at random. It seems like it would be a difficult situation to be in.
It is definitely an odd duck of a sport.
I think for that sport they don’t even bring their own horse they just hand them some rental horse at random. It seems like it would be a difficult situation to be in.
It is definitely an odd duck of a sport.
As someone who is familiar with swimming, running, equestrian show jumping & the possible substitute cycling, this would be a welcome addition. You remove the uncertainty of what the horse might (or might not do) with the uncertainty of a cycling mechanical. I would take that trade off every day of the week…
I read this as the sport fighting for there existence. Looks like the events for Paris have already been set in stone so Modern Pentathlon makes it due to timing not merit. The IOC probably went to the top of the sport and said ‘make it work or Paris is your swan song.’ The IOC is a dictator when it comes to making these sorts of decisions which will leave pentathlon running scared. I can’t see the sport surviving without the Olympics as I have never come across any modern pentathlon events is my decades in endurance sports and I also happen to live in a very horsey place well known for equestrian events. Desperate times call for desperate measures but this does feel very very desperate.
On cyclingtips:
“The plot thickened further overnight with respected Olympics-based news site Inside the Games’ reporting of a leaked UIPM report that indicated that a proposed fifth discipline needed to be “low-cost, easily understandable, have minimal injury rates and not fall under another IOC-recognised Federation’s governance†– such as the UCI.”
Put simply - cycling won’t be an option.
I have participated in many UK CTT events and gone to British human powered racing events over which the UCI has absolutely no authority or governance. Hill climbing in here in the UK is also falls outside the UCI tule book. The UCI aggressively maintains a narrow definition of cycling and bikes which means it won’t be hard to wiggle around the federation issue. Fully faired recumbent racing anyone?
Unfortunately getting around the UCI rule book will drive up cost and complexity. A hill climb would be a great shout though as it’s easy to understand and you rules dictating the bikes are incredibly simple making it cheap and accessible. Plus who doesn’t love watching other human beings suffer to the point of sickness for 2-5 minutes.
I assume any form of running or walking is out as the IAAF has a really broad remit. I don’t know about FINA but my guess is the rules covering marathon swimming cover all outdoor swimming events as well.
On cyclingtips:
“The plot thickened further overnight with respected Olympics-based news site Inside the Games’ reporting of a leaked UIPM report that indicated that a proposed fifth discipline needed to be “low-cost, easily understandable, have minimal injury rates and not fall under another IOC-recognised Federation’s governance†– such as the UCI.”
Put simply - cycling won’t be an option.
How can they require this, when the current 5 sports are individually under other federations governance?? All 5; swimming, show jumping, fencing, running and shooting are separate Olympic sports. Triathlon would also be out of that was the case.
I think for that sport they don’t even bring their own horse they just hand them some rental horse at random. It seems like it would be a difficult situation to be in.
It is definitely an odd duck of a sport.
Yes. My understanding it was to represent being at war, stealing a horse from the other side to escape. Hence riding the unfamiliar horse.
“Legend has it that Baron Pierre de Coubertin, the father of the modern Olympics and an ardent romantic, selected the five sports based on what any self-respecting soldier would do if he were behind enemy lines — that is, repel his antagonists in a fencing match, swim across something, run a certain distance, shoot at some people and ride away on whatever horse he happened to come across.”
I have participated in many UK CTT events and gone to British human powered racing events over which the UCI has absolutely no authority or governance. Hill climbing in here in the UK is also falls outside the UCI tule book. The UCI aggressively maintains a narrow definition of cycling and bikes which means it won’t be hard to wiggle around the federation issue. Fully faired recumbent racing anyone?
Unfortunately getting around the UCI rule book will drive up cost and complexity. A hill climb would be a great shout though as it’s easy to understand and you rules dictating the bikes are incredibly simple making it cheap and accessible. Plus who doesn’t love watching other human beings suffer to the point of sickness for 2-5 minutes.
I assume any form of running or walking is out as the IAAF has a really broad remit. I don’t know about FINA but my guess is the rules covering marathon swimming cover all outdoor swimming events as well.
The best way out for MP in this case is to pick a cycling discipline that has no summer games event of its own. That way they could argue there is no conflict of interest. The obvious choice in that respect (that would also fit the events running time) would be cyclocross.
Agree. And…
300meter swim, pistol shooting, Cyclocross, fencing, and a cross country race sounds like a pretty awesome race to train for.
I wonder what Jack Daniels thinks about all this.
After reading more about the history of the sport I have come to the conclusion with a few minor modifications it could be ultimate hipster event. The sport only has 4 events after pistol shooting and cross country running were combined into ‘laser run’ so no need to keep 5 nominal events.
Add mandatory head bands and a few ‘tough muddier obstacles’ and you got a real winner with the laser run. They should then go ahead and eliminate fencing and create a new combined sport of Pennyfarthing Jousting to replace horse jumping. I imagine people in ironic shirts drinking craft beer while lashing out with foam noodles on a penyfarthing. The 200m swim can be modified to a include some form of dummy spear guns so it’s also multi-discipline aquatic shooting.
A sport for the modern weekend warrior.
On cyclingtips:
“The plot thickened further overnight with respected Olympics-based news site Inside the Games’ reporting of a leaked UIPM report that indicated that a proposed fifth discipline needed to be “low-cost, easily understandable, have minimal injury rates and not fall under another IOC-recognised Federation’s governance†– such as the UCI.”
Put simply - cycling won’t be an option.
How can they require this, when the current 5 sports are individually under other federations governance?? All 5; swimming, show jumping, fencing, running and shooting are separate Olympic sports. Triathlon would also be out of that was the case.
I think there is a difference between a) being an Olympic sport under another federation’s guidance and b) that element within pentathlon being under another federation’s governance.
I’m pretty sure that the swimming part of pentathlon is not under FINA governance. And I can tell you for sure that the show jumping part is NOT under FEI governance.
From the equestrian community’s perspective, that’s been one of the biggest problems with pentathlon - the equestrian aspect is lacking the safety/equine welfare safeguards that come with FEI governance. For example, under FEI rules, a fall of horse or rider is mandatory retirement (i.e. elimination). You are also eliminated if you have more than two stops on course. In pentathlon, they crash and fall and crash and fall and just keep going. And the horses suffer.
The equestrian community, for the most part, has wanted show jumping removed from pentathlon for a while. Simply put, pentathlon is a cool idea, but in practice makes our sport look really bad.
UIPM have been asked for more than 20 years to make rider assessments mandatory but they haven’t implemented them
I agree that some riders are not fit to be on a horse but for those NGBs that have a mandatory minimum standard the standard of riders is much higher.
US and UK have mandatory minimum standards and I can honestly say I can’t remember either of those nations having problems at World Cups, World Championships or Olympics.
It would be a great opportunity to add something like UK-style hill climbs in. No venue construction needed. Lots of suffering. Short event. Easy to cover.
The downsides are that it takes the sport squarely out of the horsey set, with the resultant impacts on interest and support. It also changes who’s likely to do well. The running and swimming are fitness/power sports; while fencing, equestrian, and shooting are more skill-based. They would be swapping out one of the skill-based events for a fitness-based one.
UIPM have been asked for more than 20 years to make rider assessments mandatory but they haven’t implemented them
I agree that some riders are not fit to be on a horse but for those NGBs that have a mandatory minimum standard the standard of riders is much higher.
US and UK have mandatory minimum standards and I can honestly say I can’t remember either of those nations having problems at World Cups, World Championships or Olympics.
Minimum rider standards were/ are needed for sure. Many of those non US/UK riders need years of flat work before even being allowed to jump lower heights.
Just to put this into perspective for everyone. If these were the “world’s best†modern pentathletes at the Olympics, what the hell is happening at lower level events where a minimum standard doesn’t exist?
Wait, you want to have fell running in Modern Pentathlon? You Monster.
It would be a great opportunity to add something like UK-style hill climbs in. No venue construction needed. Lots of suffering. Short event. Easy to cover.
The downsides are that it takes the sport squarely out of the horsey set, with the resultant impacts on interest and support. It also changes who’s likely to do well. The running and swimming are fitness/power sports; while fencing, equestrian, and shooting are more skill-based. They would be swapping out one of the skill-based events for a fitness-based one.
As someone deeply involved in the horse world for many years my sense is that the horsey set has virtually no interest in or support for pentathlon.
The Chronicle of the Horse forums are essentially Slowtwitch for the horsey set. Every 4 years there we get exposed to pentathlon and there’s a big discussion as people on those forums learn for the first time about pentathlon and wonder just what the heck is going on with it. It’s not like swimmers or runners who decide to try triathlon. There really is no crossover, IME.
Modern Pentathlon is actually a pretty cool event. It was designed as a military event from another era. Horse riding and fencing sort of fell by the wayside in the last 100 or so years. In college joined ROTC (single digit draft lottery number) I tried out for the Army Pentathlon team. Then I 4 Fed my physical due to childhood asthma.
Back in the day (1970s) they were looking for collegiate swimmers that could run. I took the 300meter swim and run test at my university and finished well within their standard. Swimmers that could run got a one year pass to learn to shoot at a competitive level. They figured if you couldn’t shoot a pistol straight in a year of trying you prolly wouldn’t ever shoot straight. They were willing after a year base training to invest the next 3-5 years developing your equestrian and fencing skills.
The base was that it took a long time to develop a distance swimmer and pretty good runner and the time to learn the horsie and swordsmanship was worth the investment of a few years. George Patton was a world class pentathlon as were sever German Generals.
I don’t get the punch horse at all. In pentathlon you draw one of the provided mounts. I guess that goes back to the military idea that you don’t own your own horse. They sort of run what ya brung to the pentathlon.
Cyclocross would be sort of a new thought to the event as the bicycle has been a part and still is a part of modern warfare. The Ho Chi Min trail using plenty of bikes really hurt the American effort. Then I think MMA style fighting could replace the fencing if you were truly thinking of a Modern pentathlon. Or maybe drone flying.
Patton finished 5th in Modern Pentathlon at Stockholm in 1912, he was also on the fencing team but never started in that event. Apparently pistol shooting was his worst sport by far.