Looking for a bit of help mixing the two. Here’s the situation: I’m running the Stockholm marathon (June 1st) but my year is going to focus on bike racing. Minimal if any tri this year so for these purposes, no swimming. I had my first bike race this weekend and did better than expected. Lost some spots in the last 30sec hill. So, my <2min power is not where I would like it to be. FTP is ok for now I think.
Here’s the deal: If run training goes as it has been, I have an outside shot at BQ (emphasis on the outside.) But I would like to be able to jump right into bike racing after the marathon. I think I need to work on the short intense stuff now. How would you go about doing this, assuming I can’t get any more time to train (at about 10h/week now) I’m thinking sub some of the recovery runs with short intense trainer efforts (like 30-45min) to build the bike fitness without bagging any of my long runs and hopefully not putting myself in too much of a hole for my running.
10 hours is a lot of time if you don’t need to swim. If you didn’t care about biking at all, what would your run mileage be for a standalone marathon? If I were trying to pull off what you’re trying to do, I’d probably run 7-8 hours/week and then get in a couple bike workouts. That would put me at 60-70mpw. I’m a strong runner so could get in a couple solid bike workouts, too. I’d probably try one threshold type workout, such as 4x(8threshold+2ez), and maybe one with vo2 max intervals (5x4vo2max+3ez).
I think it depends a little bit on what you need to accomplish for your BQ. If you’ve got good tough legs from lots of mileage, but you need some upper end speed, then I think it’s pretty doable. If you’ve got the speed, but don’t have the durability over 26.2mi, then you probably need more mileage. In which case sacrificing “recovery” runs is a bad idea. A “recovery” run isn’t just filler between workouts. A “recovery” is just an effort appropriately measured so you can get a training stimulus without disrupting recovery for your next hard workout. But you do get fitness from recovery runs and most importantly it forces your body to adapt to running lots which pays off at the end of a marathon. Just think about two guys. Over a 3 month period, one guy goes for an easy 5-6mi run the day after a 20mi run. The other guy lies on the couch with his legs up. The guy on the couch “recovers” more quickly. But the guy who runs after the 20mi is forced to adapt so to handle the total volume and frequency of volume. That adapted toughness pays off in the end stages of a marathon.
Lose some weight. (half in pink, but still serious without knowing your current weight/situation…)
I’m doing a run focus over a tri training schedule, and weight is a major limiter in running speed…plus it will help with biking. Should be able to drop that upper body muscle mass if your not swimming.
If you’re doing proper run training, it’s really difficult to do any quality work on the bike. The power numbers just end up being garbage in workouts and detract from run recovery.
I would train for the marathon, but do some riding as well. Doing easy rides after runs or as your afternoon workout might help keep you healthy. Of course if you can’t handle real run mileage, then doing a lot of cycling may be your only option anyway. But in that scenario I’d advise waiting till you can put in serious miles to run a marathon.
The really hard cycling necessary for bike racing isn’t compatible with the load you’re putting on your body if you’re doing focused marathon training. Just bike race the second half of the summer.
I rode on a competitive club team while also running for my university cross country team (I was the best runner on a DII team). Granted I primarily ran 8 and 10 k, I did manage a 1:09 HM during the time, so I think a sub 2:50 marathon would be a very conservative possibility for me without changing my training a whole lot. I also raced on the bike quite a bit, and was 4th in the state time-trial championships, 3rd in the hill climb (beat one CAT 2 rider and 6 CAT 3 riders), and 11th in the road race (sprint finish). My observations for training for both are as follows:
Cycling can be an incredible tool for recovery. Ride EASY after a long run, and I found my legs recovered from the 15-20 milers quicker than if I hadn’t cycled after those runs. I typically ran my long run early in the morning on Sunday (7:00 AM) and spun my legs out on a 45-minute easy ride around 4 in the afternoon
My time ratios were about 4 run : 1 cycle, so only cycled a few hours a week (3 max unless I was in a long race), but remember I was on scholarship to run cross country, so that was my priority
Race cycling shape is funny in some ways and counter-intuitive. In a race it’s 3 hours at an obscenely low intensity relative to running, with just a few bursts at near-max intensity to cover moves and attacks on hills. In a lot of ways, Cycling shape is actually closer to a runner that runs 800 meters to the 3,000 meters than it is to a marathoner, because those guys can ramp right up to their max and recover really quickly due to the nature of their training.
Regardless of what I was training/racing, adhering to the 80:20 subthreshold to intensity (intensity means threshold and above) volume ratios was a good guideline to stick to. I used a 5:1 cycling to running ratio to verify this rule at the time and that was reasonable.
So conclusion. Run more, only throw in a cycling workout every other week or so (I did hour of power and short (<2 minute) hill sprints). Your running intensity should be relatively easy most days, with a longer (6-7 miles) threshold runs every week, and hills every week and forget about any really intense training efforts on the runs because you won’t use that part of your physiology for a marathon anyways. Active recovery means SLOW running, and EASY cycling, and the bulk of your cycling volume will be easy miles.
Race cycling shape is funny in some ways and counter-intuitive. In a race it’s 3 hours at an obscenely low intensity relative to running
This depends on how fit you are relative to the category, and who has shown up, and what the tactics are on the day! Sometimes it is balls to the walls all day!
Hey everyone, thanks for all the great advice. In a way I wish I wasn’t close to BQ level, it would be a lot easier to plan my training if that wasn’t a possibility. That said BQing would be pretty sweet (I do live in Boston after all)
I think I could use some more running miles, I think the speed is there, I’m just not sure I can hold it for 26.2. One of you all said not to worry about the biking as the engine will be there. I think that is the right idea, I’ll just have to hit the <5min power type stuff once the running is done.
If running is more important, follow a solid run plan and use the bike for cross-training. If your biking interferes with your running, go easier on the bike. I’m in the opposite boat - I concentrate on bike racing, and run to keep fit. If the running interferes with bike training, I’ll go easier or shorter, or drop it altogether.
If running is more important, follow a solid run plan and use the bike for cross-training. If your biking interferes with your running, go easier on the bike. I’m in the opposite boat - I concentrate on bike racing, and run to keep fit. If the running interferes with bike training, I’ll go easier or shorter, or drop it altogether.
I would table any thoughts of weight loss until after the marathon and racing. Cutting calories while training will only slow your recovery and hinder your performance
I tried to do both over the offseason, missed my BQ and hove nothing close to a good result in the cycling races.
I was running 60 mph with a peak at 85, while cycling 3-4 hours a week of mostly zone 2. The bike workouts wound up being garbage and did just enough to hurt my recovery from the run training.
Either go all in for the BQ, or run a conservative marathon and stay true to your bike focused season goals.
I’ve tried what you are attempting because a friend of mine seemed to do it pretty well. Unfortunately, I just sucked at both. Bike racing and marathons are pretty different. You can do some minor maintenance in the sport that is less important, but you need to pick a focus.
Chad