Misconceptions about new Ironman swim and start changes

Triathlon Forum
1

so that everybody is on the same page here:

CDA and Placid: these are not time trial starts. these are rolling starts, which, really describe every ironman. there are only so many people you can push through a squeeze, and some race start lines are just like a cattle squeeze. if you’ve ever done boston you know what i’m talking about. the only difference is that now you get a time and a place that’s an actual representation of your effort.

the point here, for these two races, is that you don’t have to rush through the squeeze. your chip time is your official time, just like in every large footrace. but it’s still a mass start.

my recommendation to you, if you’re in the last 2 miles of the ironman marathon leg and you have some question about whether the gray haired fart next to you started before or after you in the swim, is to race hard to the finish.

resting rafts: it has for some years been entirely legal to hang onto a watercraft or flotation device in any USA Triathlon event. this is not to encourage those who can’t make 2.4mi, or 1.2mi, or 1.5k, or 1k, to hopscotch from paddleboard to paddleboard as a method of getting through the swim. it’s because people have panic attacks, or heart attacks, or impending heart attacks, or trouble in the water that they may never have experienced before. it’s to tell you that these rafts are available at regular intervals in case this happens to you, so that you know what your safety plan is if you find yourself in trouble.

now, for you rambos out there who think this just pussifies ironman racing, you are free to drive out here to the compound and monty and i with our combined ages of 114 years will bitch slap you in all 3 sports. and he and i both think trying to keep people alive is a pretty solid idea, especially monty, who was near the lead in a L.A. lifeguard recertification swim when his heart had the bad form to just stop beating. my 57 year old next door neighbor monty has a pacemaker now, but he’ll still bitch slap you back and forth in the pool, regardless of your age. so, this isn’t about making ironman easy. it’s about people getting in trouble, and a plan of escape. it’s no different than having a sufficient number of fire exits in a movie theater - which don’t exist as ways for those who get too scared in a horror movie to leave the theater screaming. it’s to keep people alive in case of an emergency.

as for mt tremblant, yes, that is NOT a mass start. that’s a wave start. about half of all slowtwitchers, slightly more in fact, are in favor of these. this means, tho, that almost half prefer mass (or rolling) starts. i understand if you don’t like this change, and if you’re already entered into this race. your disappointment might represent a minority view, but it is a legitimate response.

on the rolling starts, tho, if this bothers you, then i think you should take a step back and consider the pluses and minuses of this tactic.

2

No need for me to travel to your compound, bitchslap taken.

3

I can guarantee you that people will use the resting rafts for just that,a little pit stop during the race.This in my opinion is the worst of the new ideas because it will give people who already don’t put enough (or any) open water swim training in to have a completely false sense of security.I also will say that the first time a storm blows in during a race with these rafts the natural tendancy will be for too many people to try and get on them and that will quite possibly cause more harm than good.

It is far better for WTC to be launching a campaign to raise the importance of swim preparedness than to dumb down the swim leg…

4

depending on how wide the “chute” is entering the water, I don’t know that the rolling start will fix things… people will still be the self-centered aggressive types we’ve always been that led to poorly seeded swimmers, pulling on legs to get ahead, pushing all the way to the front before the start, etc.

I like it and I’m hoping it works but am still skeptical.

That said I was ~ 100th to 150th out of the water at CdA in 2010, so this year I’m seeding there or better.

5

the flip side of this with regard to race safety, planning, and risk management is that the current plan is “hope and pray” nothing bad happens. This can’t be any worse.

I can guarantee you that people will use the resting rafts for just that,a little pit stop during the race.This in my opinion is the worst of the new ideas because it will give people who already don’t put enough (or any) open water swim training in to have a completely false sense of security.I also will say that the first time a storm blows in during a race with these rafts the natural tendancy will be for too many people to try and get on them and that will quite possibly cause more harm than good.

It is far better for WTC to be launching a campaign to raise the importance of swim preparedness than to dumb down the swim leg…

6

“I can guarantee you that people will use the resting rafts for just that,a little pit stop during the race.”

first, you can guarantee nothing, and second, are you worrying about these people using this as a tactic to beat you? if not, why do you care? why are you worrying about somebody else’s race who’s a lot slower than you, employing a race strategy that cannot gain anyone an actual tactical advantage?

“far better for WTC to be launching a campaign to raise the importance of swim preparedness than to dumb down the swim leg.”

they ARE launching that campaign. if you had read anything about WTC’s swimsmart program, this is precisely what they’re doing. there is some info on the front page article on slowtwitch that goes into a bit more detail than does WTC’s press release.

7

CDA and Placid: these are not time trial starts. these are rolling starts, which, really describe every ironman. there are only so many people you can push through a squeeze, and some race start lines are just like a cattle squeeze. if you’ve ever done boston you know what i’m talking about. the only difference is that now you get a time and a place that’s an actual representation of your effort.

the point here, for these two races, is that you don’t have to rush through the squeeze. your chip time is your official time, just like in every large footrace. but it’s still a mass start.

As per Lake Placid, I don’t see this the same way. The previous history of the start had everyone in the water waiting for the gun to go off. The start line was about 300 meters wide. Athletes were slotted to their ability (or visions of) but all started at the same time.

This year, with changing the direction of the course the start area is only about 20 meters wide. This is, I am thinking, to force the slow entrance of athletes into the swim wave. What took 30 seconds to have 2000 athletes cross the line will now take 10 minutes. While not an individual TT start, it is still a TT start but in mass proportion.

BTW, I like the change.

8

the flip side of this with regard to race safety, planning, and risk management is that the current plan is “hope and pray” nothing bad happens. This can’t be any worse.

I can guarantee you that people will use the resting rafts for just that,a little pit stop during the race.This in my opinion is the worst of the new ideas because it will give people who already don’t put enough (or any) open water swim training in to have a completely false sense of security.I also will say that the first time a storm blows in during a race with these rafts the natural tendancy will be for too many people to try and get on them and that will quite possibly cause more harm than good.

It is far better for WTC to be launching a campaign to raise the importance of swim preparedness than to dumb down the swim leg…

I think increasing watercraft and having swim waves are two much better ideas as far as monitoring water safety…I just know human nature and if people who are weaker swimmers think for one minute that they can “get away with” an Ironman swim because they know they have the rafts out there then they will base their training on that.I believe that is a recipe for disaster

9

Thank you Dan. Panic in the water = possible death. No getting around that fact, so best to deal with the reality of it and try to mitigate it from happening. In fact what I would really like to see is a qualifying swim time from another race in order to be seeded in waves for the IM races. This would help ensure that everyone in the swim wave was of equal ability and avoid both the problems of “self seeding” either above or below actual ability.

10

So the swim 2:20 cutoff is not needed? How does that impact the midnight cutoff if you start at 6:30am? Mike calls you an Ironman, you get a medal and hat. Results show DNF because you are time was 17:00+?

How about WTC just reduce the number of partipants? Get it back down to a manageable field and stop chasing the $.

11

i think there may have been other considerations in play. for example, do these changes allow for better monitoring of athletes, better access to athletes in case of trouble? better ability to get an athlete in trouble to the shore, where a defibrillator is? i love wide starts. still, one problem with a wide start in a very large race is the inability to get a watercraft to someone who’s in trouble, because of the mass of swimmers you have to get through before getting to that person.

12

Heh - I’ll bet letting eganski push people out of the way to make sure we’re about #3 or #4 - come hang with us.

13

“I can guarantee you that people will use the resting rafts for just that,a little pit stop during the race.”

first, you can guarantee nothing, and second, are you worrying about these people using this as a tactic to beat you? if not, why do you care? why are you worrying about somebody else’s race who’s a lot slower than you, employing a race strategy that cannot gain anyone an actual tactical advantage?

“far better for WTC to be launching a campaign to raise the importance of swim preparedness than to dumb down the swim leg.”

they ARE launching that campaign. if you had read anything about WTC’s swimsmart program, this is precisely what they’re doing. there is some info on the front page article on slowtwitch that goes into a bit more detail than does WTC’s press release.

Don’t be an ass Dan,I am talking about swim safety and the general public’s desire to do as little as possible to get through a bucket list event…You seem to think that you and Monty are the only ones who actually know a thing or two about water safety and the public but I can tell you that you aren’t.It’s your forum and if you don’t want to listen then so be it.

14

“Mike calls you an Ironman, you get a medal and hat. Results show DNF because you are time was 17:00+?”

read the article on the front page. if you are in a race with a rolling start, your cut-offs are based on your chip time.

15

This is great. Strategy should be to grab 3 or 4 people that swim the same pace, start at the back, paceline each other, get on the bike at the back of the pack and use 2000 athletes to leap frog through 112 miles!!! Awesome!!!

Btw, does the bitch slapping come with free room and board??

16

I will seriously take you up on that offer… I’ll PM you prior.

you know, I really like to minimize stress on race morning… I have my routine and try to just stay in my own head and think good thoughts and relax, not get into shouting matches about where I need to be in line.

Heh - I’ll bet letting eganski push people out of the way to make sure we’re about #3 or #4 - come hang with us.

17

“Mike calls you an Ironman, you get a medal and hat. Results show DNF because you are time was 17:00+?”

read the article on the front page. if you are in a race with a rolling start, your cut-offs are based on your chip time.

I will read it. I shall see if it addresses whether or not they will stop your journey if you come out of the water longer than 2:20 because you seeded yourself to have more time to complete the swim.

18

“You seen to think that you and Monty are the only ones who actually know a thing or two about water safety”

on the contrary. the difference, monty actually spent 20 years in the field, as a retired L.A. county lifeguard - so he is an expert by any measure - and when we published a set of articles on this topic i chose to interview and access the aggregate knowledge of a lot of people smarter than me.

this is precisely what WTC did. they didn’t assume they knew anything. they researched. they interviewed.

not surprisingly, we all pretty much came up with conclusions that paralleled each others’.

you, however, as far as i know, did none of these things. you have opinions. you are free to share them here and always have been. so, really, don’t play the “it’s your forum” card. if you want to make wholly unsupported statements that attack the views of others, then you should expect blowback. i think you’ve been here long enough to know that if you attack, be ready for the counter.

19

The real story here is the warm-up. That is what’s going to save lives.

Protip-get in the water, take 10-15 deep breaths and hold it. Warm up your lungs and get used to the compression.

I won’t push anyone out of the way, I’ll simply say “if you don’t plan on being one of the first 5-10 athletes out of the water, please step aside. If you do, my name is Eganski, let’s be friends for the next 52-54 minutes, ok?”

20

my recommendation to you, if you’re in the last 2 miles of the ironman marathon leg and you have some question about whether the gray haired fart next to you started before or after you in the swim, is to race hard to the finish.

I’m quite happy to to what we can to improve the safety of the swim. The floating rafts don’t bother me, I don’t plan on ever stopping at one, but I don’t mind knowing that they are there if I need them. Also, the pre-race in water warmup seems like a good idea – reduce that adrenaline juicing your heart rate while cold water on your face is trying to slow it down effect.

But, the main thing I dislike is this part I quoted above. It’s fine to say “just race your best race”, but everyone knows that in competition seeing your competitor has an effect. Who hasn’t felt an involuntary surge of effort when you see the number on someone’s calf and know that’s who you are racing. This isn’t a local century ride, it’s a race, and I like to race WITH the people who are racing the same race. For that reason, I think age group wave starts are preferable to this streaming start idea – unless they start splitting the age groups which again makes it hard to tell where you are.