Marathon training mileage

Triathlon Forum
1

After a few years of tri training going to do a marathon this next fall and am curious how others would approach building mileage

I used to be 800-5k runner and was doing 40-50 mile weeks for a ~8 years, spent the last 2 years or so in the 20-30 range training for a 70.3 and 140.6 but also biking and swimming for anywhere from 5-15 hours a week in total with the running

Would aiming to hit 60-70 mpw consistently be too ambitious? I would think I can build back to be 40-50 quickly and then more cautious after that and be at 60 in 8-10 weeks

2

Depends on your durability, but with several years in the 40-50 mpw range, your body will probably be up to the task. I’ve personally topped out at 55mpw, and my preference is to work slowly upwards from my usual base of 30mpw. Also don’t forget that you can keep some cycling and/or swimming and use that to replace some of the easy aerobic miles that 60-70 mile weeks require.

3

From my own experience and attempting to keep up with the science / coaches, most if not all marathoners would stand to benefit from a multisport type approach. Now you can’t blame “runners” for not embracing the bike and/or the swim, since presumably they run because they enjoy running, and likely don’t have a bike or a nice indoor setup. But for triathletes, that part is already taken care of. The magic of cycling is that it is way, way easier to accumulate long sessions. A two hour run is pretty brutal regardless of how slow you go, but from a cardio perspective, a two hour bike ride near the same HR/lactate is going to be a similar stimulus, and way way easier on the body. And once we’re talking 3 - 4 hour + rides, you simply can’t get that type of stimulus with running (which is why you see a lot of two-a-days).

I ran my first marathon last fall coming off a 70.3 focus, and I ramped from 25-30 mpw to a peak of 50 mpw before the race. My mistake is that, because I was pretty burned out, I dropped the swimming and cycled maybe an hour a week for recovery if I was lucky. So while my run volume increased significantly, my overall training volume went DOWN, and I could definitely notice that. I was effectively slightly detraining. I was able to handle the load of running much better, but my numbers in terms of “pace divided by HR” got slightly worse.

I’ve been doing somewhat of the opposite lately, where my running has been very limited due to injury, but lots of bike and swim miles, and what’s surprising is that when I do run I haven’t lost much, and actually feel better cardio wise and can nail some fast paces. Some strength work has played a part here as well. Where I can notice the lower running volume is at very fast paces (faster than 5K pace), where I’ve lost some efficiency, and also each run damages me a bit more than when I was running higher mileage.

For my next marathon build my plan will be to keep cycling 3 days a week, with one long 3hr+ session, one semi-long Z2, and some occasional intervals. Aim to keep the total training volume the same, but shift from maybe a 55/30/15 split B/R/S to something like 30/60/10 (and keep some strength work in there as well). That’s probably 1 or 2 short/medium swims a week.

Tl;dr I think non-elite marathoners / running community chases miles a bit and would benefit from some long Z2 rides to support the base, and with that better supported, a little more race-specific in the running. Fill in the gaps with swimming if you enjoy it / can handle it.

4

What is your goal for a marathon? Specific time in mind?

I ran my open marathon PR maxing at 38 mpw (3:13:xx). I ran my Ironman marathon PR maxing at 44 mpw (3:28:xx). I am far from elite or even “good” but those mileages were plenty to have me ready. And your running background puts mine to shame. You have areal strong foundation. Of course I was always swimming and cycling too with those mileages so factor that in I guess.

I personally think anything over 50 is pretty intense and you need not hit that type of number in order to be well prepared to run a strong marathon. Obv depends on the person and the goals. I think with your background you could crush a marathon on a smartly done 40 mpw if you wanted to. Obv nothing wrong with more volume if you want.

5

I have been running only for the last few years but the last 10 years been tri/running probably 30-50 miles every week. Just got back into running a few weeks ago after a month off for foot surgery and built pretty quickly from 20 to 40 (3 weeks). All easy runs except last week started with one harder workout a week. Will keep building as the summer goes on and get fully into marathon prep. I don’t think 60-70 miles is too ambitious as long as you have a plan and take the easy days easy. My marathon plan is 7 days a week running and that is what I have done in the past. But one run is SUPER easy, then a long run, interval/strength run, and the rest easy. But it seems like you know to build slowly so you will be able to tell once it is getting to be too much.

6

doing something similar but will cap my longest week around 60 (maybe 50-55) but will have several months of 40-45 mile weeks. Also, adding 1 hour of hot yoga 4x per week and weights 2x per week. body work (massage) 1x per week.

7

What’s your goal for the marathon? Are you aiming to finish or aiming to go fast? To truly open up your running potential you would want to work up to the magical 100mpw. The trendy thing now is do less volume, but if you look at the elites and 99% of people going 2:30 they are all hitting big volume numbers. Couple that big volume with big workouts and you’ll be in a good place. Our group would do a 20 miler with 3 mile tempo to start, cruising to 15 miles, then marathon pace over/unders to get to 20.

The marathon is one of those events where the masses want to train as little as they possibly can to check it off their bucket list. The articles and opinions you’ll see online will largely be aimed towards this much more sizable group.

TL;DR - Run as much as you without getting hurt.

8

Depends, what are your goals?

9

From my own experience and attempting to keep up with the science / coaches, most if not all marathoners would stand to benefit from a multisport type approach. Now you can’t blame “runners” for not embracing the bike and/or the swim, since presumably they run because they enjoy running, and likely don’t have a bike or a nice indoor setup. But for triathletes, that part is already taken care of. The magic of cycling is that it is way, way easier to accumulate long sessions. A two hour run is pretty brutal regardless of how slow you go, but from a cardio perspective, a two hour bike ride near the same HR/lactate is going to be a similar stimulus, and way way easier on the body. And once we’re talking 3 - 4 hour + rides, you simply can’t get that type of stimulus with running (which is why you see a lot of two-a-days).

I ran my first marathon last fall coming off a 70.3 focus, and I ramped from 25-30 mpw to a peak of 50 mpw before the race. My mistake is that, because I was pretty burned out, I dropped the swimming and cycled maybe an hour a week for recovery if I was lucky. So while my run volume increased significantly, my overall training volume went DOWN, and I could definitely notice that. I was effectively slightly detraining. I was able to handle the load of running much better, but my numbers in terms of “pace divided by HR” got slightly worse.

I’ve been doing somewhat of the opposite lately, where my running has been very limited due to injury, but lots of bike and swim miles, and what’s surprising is that when I do run I haven’t lost much, and actually feel better cardio wise and can nail some fast paces. Some strength work has played a part here as well. Where I can notice the lower running volume is at very fast paces (faster than 5K pace), where I’ve lost some efficiency, and also each run damages me a bit more than when I was running higher mileage.

For my next marathon build my plan will be to keep cycling 3 days a week, with one long 3hr+ session, one semi-long Z2, and some occasional intervals. Aim to keep the total training volume the same, but shift from maybe a 55/30/15 split B/R/S to something like 30/60/10 (and keep some strength work in there as well). That’s probably 1 or 2 short/medium swims a week.

Tl;dr I think non-elite marathoners / running community chases miles a bit and would benefit from some long Z2 rides to support the base, and with that better supported, a little more race-specific in the running. Fill in the gaps with swimming if you enjoy it / can handle it.
This is fantastic advice. Can confirm all of this both in my experience coaching athletes and also reading the literature. Appreciate you writing it out.

This makes 2 posts this week on this forum that I’ll be saving to share with clients & friends. :slight_smile:

10

Goal is looking at 2:55 for marathon. For reference I ran an 18:30 5k time trial the other week solo. My best half split is 1:25 on a course hillier than my marathon will be 2 years ago and haven’t done a straight running race since really

For the person who said 100 mpw that would be an eventual goal if I go full on runner for a few years again but I think would break me this summer

I also still plan on biking 1 day a week for 2-3 hours outside because I like it but probably won’t be swimming much at all

11

This question just came up recently in this thread:

Marathon Training help / suggestions.: Triathlon Forum: Slowtwitch Forums

It doesn’t specifically address ‘total mileage’ but more is always better, as long as it’s injury free and consistency can be maintained.
A bit trickier if one is a triathlete but the choice to cut out some easier runs in place of S or B is always good but the highest volume that can be achieved builds a very strong base.

One thing I didn’t mention last time is this:

Summer of Malmo

This is basically trying to achieve the golden ~100mpw over the summer to prepare for fall race season.
Best to be young to do this…

12

I am 50 years old and have just run a 2:53 Marathon PR. In October I sustained a foot injury, I managed to run slowly and reduced mileage, around 20-30mpw since mid November, in late feb I restarted weekly intervals, and it was only in March, around 4 weeks before my Marathon, that I was able to run without any issues. A week after my marathon, I ran a 100k ultra

I am primarily a cyclist and have a huge engine from cycling. I switched a lot of my time I would have been running to S&C. I would therefore argue that to train for a marathon, 6 months out 90% easy running 30-40 miles, supported by cycling and S&C. About 2 months out increase distance and add more Interval Sessions

I have successfully increased both my running and cycling pace. A good friend, former Kona qualifier, focused solely on running and ran a 2:39 Marathon, he was running 60-80 mpw consitently, with much more pace work than I was doing, however, he did no cycling and has lost a massive amount of cycling pace (we recently did a ride together).

13

I ran a 2:51 this winter off of about 30 miles a week. But it came on the back of years and years of consistent, aerobic work, which you probably have in the tank as well. But in hindsight, I probably left a couple minutes on the course – my heart and lungs outclassed my legs, and my quads just didn’t have the strength to close the back half as strong as I wanted. I’m 31 yo and probably could crack 2:45 if i trained like a proper marathoner, just looking at my bike ability and engine. But I also am heavy (175) and have a history of being fragile.

If you’ve never been a high mileage guy (nothing in your post suggested you were), i’d really question the benefit of getting much about 40-50 mpw now. You’ll get hurt, or you probably would have run higher mileage in the past. In my opinion, you’ll get pretty close to your open potential and be MUCH more resilient at 40-50 mpw, supplementing with z2 aerobic cycling.

14

60-70/week isn’t too ambitious at all & puts you in the right ballpark for 2:55. Just be smart about getting there. Don’t focus on workouts when you’re building up. Maybe just one workout/week. Tempo or threshold stuff. People get hurt when they build up too quickly & are on the track twice a week for VO2 reps.

15

If you’ve never been a high mileage guy (nothing in your post suggested you were), i’d really question the benefit of getting much about 40-50 mpw now. You’ll get hurt, or you probably would have run higher mileage in the past. In my opinion, you’ll get pretty close to your open potential and be MUCH more resilient at 40-50 mpw, supplementing with z2 aerobic cycling.
Agree this. Do not listen to the junk mile siren calls above (100 mpw ffs!)
Get and follow a well designed programme with quality as it’s focus, not quantity.
Stop counting the miles and just record the length of time on the road in your training diary.
That Z2 cycling will enhance the endurance needed.

16

If you’ve never been a high mileage guy (nothing in your post suggested you were), i’d really question the benefit of getting much about 40-50 mpw now. You’ll get hurt, or you probably would have run higher mileage in the past. In my opinion, you’ll get pretty close to your open potential and be MUCH more resilient at 40-50 mpw, supplementing with z2 aerobic cycling.

I would agree with this post. If you’ve spent the last couple years as a triathlete doing 20-30 miles per week then I would increase up to 40-50 and make sure that is sustainable. Hell, even do 30-40 for a little while to make sure your body can handle it. The people I see injured often are the ones who chase mileage goals. Example: “I need to run 4 extra miles today so I can hit 70 for the week”. Just stick to a plan that works for your body and gradually make small adjustments.

17

Never being a high mileage guy is more a result that I was mostly focused on the shorter races with the 800 and mile being my best races. I also have been fortunate in being pretty injury resilient over the years with 1 calf strain a few years back that I am fully recovered from

After reading these maybe 70 might be a bit too much but I think aiming for 50-60 range after a few week build up would fit me rather well with added zone 2 riding

Next few weeks I still have some tris so will just do 25-30 mpw and get solid there with plenty of biking and swimming

Then sit around 40 for a bit to get used to being mostly a runner again before looking to crack 50ish

18

Would aiming to hit 60-70 mpw consistently be too ambitious?

If you didn’t have any issues at 50mpw, 60-70 is not too ambitious.

19

I probably have a similar running background to yourself. I was also an 800-5k guy. I did have two summers where I was preparing for cross country and got up near 100mpw. Felt awful and was constantly battling injuries. I had my best seasons and fastest races when I was down around the 50-60mpw range.

20

Never being a high mileage guy is more a result that I was mostly focused on the shorter races with the 800 and mile being my best races. I also have been fortunate in being pretty injury resilient over the years with 1 calf strain a few years back that I am fully recovered from
800/1500 here too before trying to run 26 miles, successfully (x a few), on 7 hours a week.
Club member’s new book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Marathon-Wisdom-Athletes-Insights-Running/dp/1782552456/